"Pink" smock or not?

[PBR]

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[Dennis S]

Police trooper in italian camo smock tucked in shorts appears to have a collar though.

Probably more of a custom job.

[Dennis S]

There are several photos like these with Luftwaffe personnel wearing italian camo smocks type 2 I believe.

[Dennis S]

One more

[90th Light]

Hello Dennis,

thank you for posting the additional images. This is all getting very interesting

The LW smocks that you have shown in post numbers 783 & 784 are "type 1 SS smocks" with the pockets on the side. These would appear to be the same as the one in post number 776 from Alfred's link in post number 773

The SS smocks in post number 770 are "type 2 SS smocks" with the extra foliage loops like the "Pink Smocks"

Both models of the SS smocks made from Italian camo material are an important discovery. The SS/ Police & LW ( FJR ?) connection only adds to the interest factor and what is being discussed on this thread.

Again many thanks for sharing such important images,

Chris

Also thanks to TK for his image in post number 781. A bigger image would help but they certainly appear that they could be type 2 SS smocks made from Italian camo and being worn by Italian SS troops. However it is hard to be certain

[pete]

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One Pink Smock, has now had an offer, for, well I will just say above 7000 and less than 10000. The winds are changing.

Pete

[Dennis S]

Chris, if your italian camo zelt is triangular it was made from confiscated stock for German WH issue. If is square it is an italian made and issued one.
The majority of the italian SS probably wore and were issued the square italian ones.
The Italians continued to make and issue the square ones postwar with some changes.

Now that I look at post number 777 again. In the back of my memory, I have a zelt made from Italian camo that was brought back from Italy in 1945.

Have not looked at it for years but when I locate where I have put it, will take some images and add here.

Never occurred to me that it could be Italian SS or even WH. I had just assumed Italian at the time.

Interesting in more ways than one,

Chris

[PBR]

Also thanks to TK for his image in post number 781. A bigger image would help but they certainly appear that they could be type 2 SS smocks made from Italian camo and being worn by Italian SS troops. However it is hard to be certain

Unfortunately I don't have that book anymore so I cannot scan it, maybe Dennis could?
I can confirm they are SS-like smocks made from M29 italian camo fabric, with strings for the foliage too: if I recall correctly they also have some SS-Ueberzug for their german helmets made in M29.
I seem to recall they are the Debica fighting the partisans around Piacenza in north-western Italy.

[Dennis S]

Smock made of Italian camo worn by SS ? Or is it a 4 pocket jacket?

[RobertE]

Dennis, with shoulder seams and apparent lack of loops, I don't think this is cut as a smock. It is interesting, though. Nice sleeve rank.

s/f Robert

[Dennis S]

Your correct my bad. Here is a frontal shot .

[Mike C]

It is Max Wunsche. The 12th SS panzer regiment wore a unique button up jacket with breast pockets only. I have never seen a M40/M42 smock, in Italian camo, in any Normandy images.

Mike

[Dennis S]

Unfortunately I don't have that book anymore so I cannot scan it, maybe Dennis could?
I can confirm they are SS-like smocks made from M29 italian camo fabric, with strings for the foliage too: if I recall correctly they also have some SS-Ueberzug for their german helmets made in M29.
I seem to recall they are the Debica fighting the partisans around Piacenza in north-western Italy.

Here I will try to post a larger photo.

[90th Light]

Chris, if your italian camo zelt is triangular it was made from confiscated stock for German WH issue. If is square it is an italian made and issued one.
The majority of the italian SS probably wore and were issued the square italian ones.
The Italians continued to make and issue the square ones postwar with some changes.

Thanks Dennis,

From memory, my Italian zelt is a triangular with no button or peg holes.

I always wonder if it was an unfinished example because of that. After seeing the one in Alfred's post, I now realise that this is how they were issued,

Chris

[90th Light]

A interesting point to note in all of this;

there is does not seem to be any evidence of "type 1 SS smocks" or "type 2 SS smocks" made from Italian camo being found in use or souvenired from other fronts. The only front they appear to have been used on is the Italian front by small localised units.

Thus can we possibly conclude that they were made by a local Italian manufacturers to fill an apparent shortage or need of certain units (Italian SS, LW (FJR?) & WH Zelts) in that Italian area only.

Can we then extend that conclusion to the "Pink Smock" and also conclude, local production for only certain units in need (Estonian SS ?) on a certain front of limited geograpical area in a small time frame. Did the "Pink Smocks" fall into Russian hands at the factory, distribution center or battle unit level ???

Do more pictures exist of the "type 1 SS smocks" from Italy because more pictures were taken in 1943 & early 1944 of these smocks and have survived the war to this day ???

Are there less pictures of "type 2 SS smocks" in Italian camo or Pink Smock camo because we are considering the period of late 1944 & 1945 and thus;

1/ less pictures were taken at the time
2/ not many pictures have survived the war
3/ Only a few soldiers wore this type of localised SS smock
4/ not many photos were taken in factories producing smocks at the time
5/ all of the above.

May be we can not yet fully conclude but it makes for an interest summation of where we are up to,

Chris

does the same apply to Norwegian smocks made of Norwegian SS camo