"Pink" smock or not?

[pete]

.

Does anyone have access to a period camera and modern film, such as what people are doing with a period Roliflex these days but for the German version? There is a possibility we could replicate the photo with a Pink smock same angle, etc.

REgards,

Pete

[Eric Mill]

Why not go forensic.....

Why not a more scientific approach????

I'm not sure whats exactly possible but....just a suggestion.

Some analyses on the fiber/cloth and used chemical(s) on the pink one with cross match etc etc with some original pieces of W-SS cloth. Maybe there pop up some chemical substances that didn't exist in those years.....or whats so ever.

After asking the laboratory whats possible..and what this should cost....we start looking for some textile from the pink one and some textile from original pieces of W-SS camo clothing.

We all throw a few bucks in the bucket for the analyses....a once in a lifetime opportunity to solve the riddle as a coworking forumcommunity.....


http://www.kikirpa.be/EN/143/355/Textiel.htm?

http://www.textilelab.nl/

[Spanish Freiwillige]

Thank you, Sir!
In the meantime...not a good basis for comparison, but interesting.
Mark
NZ

construction is different..look at the tear in the arm (period photo) and where the pinki arm parts are joined...diferent...

[phild]

construction is different..look at the tear in the arm (period photo) and where the pinki arm parts are joined...diferent...

I think that the smock being worn by the soldier in the center of the photo is the one being considered. I'm not sure either way if the one on the right with the tear is the same pattern as the center one???

At any rate, I'm not sure if the tear is actually at the arm seam/join or not? It may be a good bit above it....I can not tell. I have doubts if a smock could be torn right on this seam as they are very strong seams in this area and up the sides.


As to the suggestion for a scientific approach, I am all for it and I will help in way that I can.

This idea has been raised several times in the past. I have not idea of where to start with ID'ing the right place to do the type of analysis that is needed. Who ever does the work will have to have a REAL knowledge of what was and was not available in WWII as well as the means to correctly ID the composition of what is contained in the dyes and materials for this to have any meaning. Also we have to find a candidate smock that will in a large part be destroyed.

If the results come back the every element is pre-45 it will still not move many of the nay-sayers from their opinion as it will not prove that they are pre-45 made, but would be a another data point that they could be

[90th Light]

Its those "Pink Smocks" again

How about a "type 2 SS smock" made of Italian camo. Has anyone got one of these in their collection to show so we can see such a period beast in detail ???

Again more evidence of "type 2 SS smocks" being made of locally produced camo in countries of the Third Reich or allied to the Reich. The smocks in this image also appear to have some minor variations from the German produced type 2 SS smock. Hard to say for sure without having one in hand.

In fact the caps also look interesting and non-text book. I would love to hold them to study the finer points of some period original variations.

"They never did that, yes they did"

(full credit to Denis S for having posted this image in this thread http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ghlight=Berven)

Chris

[RobertE]

Chris, please stop posting replica smock photos. None of these exist in our vast collections - how can this be if they are really to be considered original? How is it that I'm just now seeing such a photo - why are there not more in the extensive archives we have from the Italian campaign? Probably photo shopped, and I just don't buy it.

Why would a German pattern smock be made in the first place from Italian camo - or are you suggesting that bulk (more than one, but probably a limited run) smocks were made from locally procured materials? Ludicrous.

These aren't real, and I'd need a lot more than just a period (or is it?) photo before I'll even begin to believe it. Sorry.

Regards, Robert

[RobertE]

On a serious note, this is a very exciting find. It demonstrates what we already know about SS smocks from the Norwegian examples: smocks were produced using local materials in smaller lots during the war.

As Chris points out, the rope-like drawstrings, "different" foliage loops, and other features show these to be slightly different than German factory examples. But they were obviously made well enough to be issued and worn during the war.

Many tanks for the posting.

regards, Robert

[Alfred.R]

On a serious note, this is a very exciting find. It demonstrates what we already know about SS smocks from the Norwegian examples: smocks were produced using local materials in smaller lots during the war.

As Chris points out, the rope-like drawstrings, "different" foliage loops, and other features show these to be slightly different than German factory examples. But they were obviously made well enough to be issued and worn during the war.

Many tanks for the posting.

regards, Robert

i dont know if this help,but i have just looking for a wh zeltbahn here in sale section and found this!
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=690750
in first photo in this sale is one smock in italy camo.

[NZMark]

Well, well, well - that's a first for me....
Mark
NZ

[90th Light]

Chris, please stop posting replica smock photos. None of these exist in our vast collections - how can this be if they are really to be considered original? How is it that I'm just now seeing such a photo - why are there not more in the extensive archives we have from the Italian campaign? Probably photo shopped, and I just don't buy it.

Why would a German pattern smock be made in the first place from Italian camo - or are you suggesting that bulk (more than one, but probably a limited run) smocks were made from locally procured materials? Ludicrous.

These aren't real, and I'd need a lot more than just a period (or is it?) photo before I'll even begin to believe it. Sorry.

Regards, Robert

Hello Robert,

it would certainly be interesting to hear what Dennis S had to say about the smocks and how he came across the photo. If anyone knows his Italian SS on WAF, it is Dennis.

Classic Italian SS camo look and caps of the time as the period posters below prove,

Chris

[90th Light]

i dont know if this help,but i have just looking for a wh zeltbahn here in sale section and found this!
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=690750
in first photo in this sale is one smock in italy camo.

Good spotting Alfred

and thanks for posting this link

Lets add the images here before they disappear,

Chris

[90th Light]

More images of Alfred's link,

Chris

[Thorsten B.]

This is about 70 years old but is a cool and very modern looking camo pattern - incredible!

[Alfred.R]

This is about 70 years old but is a cool and very modern looking camo pattern - incredible!

italian camo is near 100 years old,this first one ever so far i know printed on cloth,was found out in 20"s.

[90th Light]

Now that I look at post number 777 again. In the back of my memory, I have a zelt made from Italian camo that was brought back from Italy in 1945.

Have not looked at it for years but when I locate where I have put it, will take some images and add here.

Never occurred to me that it could be Italian SS or even WH. I had just assumed Italian at the time.

Interesting in more ways than one,

Chris