"Pink" smock or not?

[kammo man]

"Pink" smock or not?

Philid
Keep living the dream
Owen

[bnz]

Great thread with great research with great results! Bravo!

These Russian movie studio stamps in "pink"smocks prove that these are 100% authentic and original uniforms. No one would ever fake these movie studio stamps 30 years ago.

No doubt these are original movie studio stamps.

And back then Russian movie studios only had original WW2 German camo uniforms in their inventory - they never made or buy repro camo uniforms for their movies. When they did not have it, they simply used modern Russian camo in their movies. See a screenshot from a Russian movie made in late 1970s for example. They did not care much about the correct camo patterns.

[pete]

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I'm supposed to be out of this thread now, so I'm breaking my own rule!

Of course these are real....It's quite obvious now, and, I will add some influential people are watching this but not commenting, further Combat wear photos are not really even needed now in my opinion.

These Smocks were NOW CLEARLY OBVIOUSLY in a location with other period items LATE WAR/IMMEDIATE POST WAR PERIOD again at the right Historical time to put them (and stamp them) with released captured items (i.e Triangle and circle) and BEFORE the Block stamp went on. That's 100% factual physical proof of a geographical location now, backed up by the 1947 information. As a reminder, NO ONE could answer this question before.

Knew they were real?: I think there are people who have known this, and worked hard to keep them an unknown. Look at the age of this thread, and that also in 2003 period there was a post of the Pink smock stampings which NEVER was again posted in public until Phil found another. The same post described a pair of Mittens with the same Stamp. NOBODY has come out of the woodwork since. Here we have a pair of dot 44 pants and now new Smock with a legible stamp, veryyyyy interesting. We also got info about them from Russia pointing to 1947 transfer from the Military, the foreign manufacture details add up if you think in terms of then not now, like a real historian does, and, the Baltic connection may also add up quite well. EITHER WAY, the Stamps are definitive proof of a physical geographic location which nullifies many of the early questions now as to IF they are likely period.

Buying up Smocks? I think this has went on for a long long time...

Knew there were stamps? Had photos of said stamps? Knew there were other items with stamps? I think this has went on for a long long time...

Vital information sharing/research? Some strange patterns observed, and some possible back tracking once that started going to the right places. Not sure what to think of that.....maybe just my own interpretation.

Other items with same stamps? YES there are "apparently" others, at least as was posted in 2003. We should also see a pair of Mittens, should that person post, or someone who knows the guy better then me can make it happen...

There is no point in attempts to keep these an unknown. I predict now that the prices have already been amended to reflect what they are, actually a relatively rare SS Smock, and a foreign one, of likely low production.

What point are we at now?: I think we are at the point where a substantial amount of people now will accept this item. That "safe-investment protection blanket zone" has been reached. IMHO. The 1:1 people, or whatever it is maybe not 1:1, they will always discount anything they have never seen before, same old!


Regards,

Pete

[blamers]

Hooks...

Hello Chris., nothing about the pink smock..I have had one for $350 and I'm glad it went my door for the same $350.
Gone., I like things before 1945 IMO

But I see it are original period pics ., but it's about the hooks on the covers...

Nothing about the camo., but the hook plates from alluminium looks quite a sharp corner isn't ?? I have an Oak also with sharp corners., not rounded..

That was the comment/thread...

Thanks !

Hello blamers,

The images shown in post numbers 508, 509 & 514 are all original period photos taken before May 1945.

I posted them to show a range of "oddities" in SS & WH camo being worn by SS & WH troops.

None of these images to my knowledge, show a "Pink Smock" being worn. That is member Fritz's interpretation of the postings not mine.

The reason I posted the images is to show that things we do not think or have seen in the world of SS camo were being worn at the time,

Chris

[kammo man]

"Pink" smock or not?

So much waffle for a fake jacket !!
Keep up the waffle please it gives me something great to read on the bog ...

[phild]

Exactly!
A smart collector would buy all of these he could
Find and put them away until that photo surfaces.

I think that some have been buying them up for some time because they know they are real...and at least one has the photos already.

I no longer need a photo to know for sure that they are real. There are plenty of types of items that every collector who collects in that area accept as real and have never been found in a period photo or in some cases one that shows it clearly enough to say for sure it is the exact variation in question.


I also like the post about the Soviet movie use of real uniforms or when not available just using other old patterns of Soviet camo on hand. I do believe that the stamps are much more related to the Soviet war ministry and/or museum system rather than movie property stamps.

[kammo man]

"Pink" smock or not?

He was joking !!!
Can't you see that ?

[bnz]

I think that some have been buying them up for some time because they know they are real...and at least one has the photos already.

I no longer need a photo to know for sure that they are real. There are plenty of types of items that every collector who collects in that area accept as real and have never been found in a period photo or in some cases one that shows it clearly enough to say for sure it is the exact variation in question.


I also like the post about the Soviet movie use of real uniforms or when not available just using other old patterns of Soviet camo on hand. I do believe that the stamps are much more related to the Soviet war ministry and/or museum system rather than movie property stamps.

Actually, it is exactly movie property stamps. The word "фильм" (pron.: fiˈlm) in the stamp means "movie" in Russian.

[pete]

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As this would likely be classed as a rare smock now when you look at it just based on the limited number known to have come to the western market, what they would likely be valued at compared to other rare smocks?

From whatever they were in 1980s ($350?), to the going rate in the last while $600-1500 when classed as a "maybe" by most, and I understand while not posting publicly already some have changed from red/yellow to full green light now.......so now to ($ ?) in future?

Pete

[Thorsten B.]

There are no doubters around anymore - if there ever have been many.

There are just people telling what the really are and those who dismiss it.

Those who dismiss it in reality eagerly try to buy them themselves and just want to keep prices low to make bargains.

That´s all.

[RobertE]

Yes, and the circular stamp and triangular stamp are unidentified - they look like Russian military inventory stamps, with nothing to do with the film industry.

regards, Robert

Actually, it is exactly movie property stamps. The word "фильм" (pron.: fiˈlm) in the stamp means "movie" in Russian.

[pete]

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To the best of my knowledge, the Triangle stamp is a standard Russian shape which is used with captured items in general. As I was saying many posts ago, you can also see this shape on captured weapons too. There are other Eastern items with different kinds of Triangle stamps as well on captured items, now if any of those were fake stamps in those items posted on this forum that I am unsure but they were nothing like these. I am not sure of the letters in these stamps as well, which are obviously abbreviated descriptions which we could likely figure out.

Pete

[phild]

Yes, and the circular stamp and triangular stamp are unidentified - they look like Russian military inventory stamps, with nothing to do with the film industry.

regards, Robert

Again I agree with you.

Thanks bnz for the information and I was wrong about the movie property stamp....this box was what I always saw holed or inked in the ones that were stamped that i saw in 81 on.

We all agree that these can not be post war movie props and Soviet red and green stamps are connected to War Ministry captured property from the war.....we also all agree that these smocks had the stamps when they came into the West...and have had some of the most respected SS collectors state that they saw them when Floch first recieved them....with these stamps...in bales with rodent damage to the outside and filthy warehouse grime on the outside of the bale smocks.....on and on.

We also all agree that the tie holes in all of these are hand sewn and that the cut and selvage lay out is 100% correct as are all of the subtle stress point re-enforcing...as would be demanded in mil spec sewing....and that the thread is of a very old source and spin and that all materials used is correct to wartime composition of textiles.....and all buttons are German wartime and pretty hard to find by the hundreds or thousands then or now...and all show storage age and were....not possible to be faked they way that these exhibit it....

[RobertE]

That was my point, poorly made. For all the talk of faked markings, all those I've ever seen are film studio markings, especially in the Czech and eastern European headgear and trousers.

So the film studio box stamp I'll concede has been faked for a bit, maybe the last 15 years. Maybe. The stamps in the smocks predate those by 15 years, by the way.

The triangle and round stamps are not film stamps, and are military - I don't know if they are capture markings, reissue markings, or wartime storage acceptance markings, but they are not film studio markings.

I was in Leningrad (months, not days) when it changed to Saint Petersburg, and bought plenty of ex-military stuff through the museums there. That was a common pipeline: the Soviet MOD dumped stuff they had stockpiled for reserve issue to the film market. It was an authorized displosal method - and it's how things were done.

The Soviets stockpiled lots of WWII items, not just German but other foreign manufacture. They did this with all types of material, though the enormous inventories of M1928 US Thompson SMGs and K98's are the most widely encountered. The fact is, after WWII the Soviet Bloc kept items they thought they could reissue or just didn't know what to do with, in quantity.

These circle and triangle stamps are Soviet military. They were in these smocks 20 years before ANY film stamps were being reproduced, and that's just film stamps.

Phild and others have taken the time to show the military stamps in original items, and THOSE markings are not being effectively reproduced. I'm talking about the colored circles and triangles, now.

If any one of you who don't like the smocks dispute the round and triangle stamps are only in original garments, please post your fakes showing these markings. Our collecting colleagues have shown these stamps existing in pre-1945 items and in the smocks you love to hate - they are posted in this thread. Rather than respond with more subjective or emotional comments that are backed by no evidence, post your stamps. These SAME stamps, please.

regards, Robert

[Fritz]

There are no doubters around anymore - if there ever have been many.

There are just people telling what the really are and those who dismiss it.

Those who dismiss it in reality eagerly try to buy them themselves and just want to keep prices low to make bargains.

That´s all.

Not sure if you noticed the forum had been down for some days? So, terribly sorry, but the "bushwhaker's" still around. I am here, and I am pleased to see that Owen (as well as others) is still here.


Not sure what your agenda is. You are not known to be into camo...? So what's all the struggle for on your end?

I don't have one of these, don't want one of these - means I am not competing you for your purchases. Good luck in acquiring as many as you possibly can - please post pics!


Cheers