"Pink" smock or not?

[besslein]

Perhaps this photo might be of interest.
Here is the link to the sale on Ruptured Duck site. As far as I can see these stamps are the same as the ones on the Pink smocks...
http://www.therupturedduck.com/WebPa...forms/u067.htm

Also interesting that the stamp is crossed over on the palm tree smock and some parts are blacked out. Text is also blacked out on the pink's stamp and most stamps are cut away...

Not taking side but it is a bit interesting....

Cheers
//Felix

it was blacked out most perhaps right after it was stolen from russian movie studio in early 90 "mos or lenin film"

[RobertE]

You didn't have to steal them. The Russian museums would sell them to you. I'm sure the movie houses would as well.

regards, Robert

[RobertE]

I have read alot about the markings in the pink smocks, but none of the ones I've seen or owned had the markings that have sparked so much interest, or any sign of their removal.

If anyone has a smock with these markings, could they please post it so we can compare?

regards, Robert

[pete]

.

I Knew somebody knew more......

So now everything else aside.....we have two unquestionable items with the same markings, and the same markings in the Pink smocks. End of story.


Thanks all, it was a lot of fun!


Pete

http://www.therupturedduck.com/WebPa...forms/u067.htm

[pete]

.

The Pink Smock.

[Fritz]

End of story.


Thanks all, it was a lot of fun!


Pete

I am not quite sure I am getting your point here, are you saying that these stamps are the proof that these pink smocks are authentic?



Cheers

[pete]

.

Well,

Are we going to now say that because these same stamps are on two 100% items that because the smock is "different"..well.....there's 30 off pages of that. Guys Really it's been great!

I'm sold. I'm out of the discussion now.


Pete

[Fritz]

Except that German veterans have told me me that the "pink smocks" are pre -May 1945 manufacture made in Estonia or Latvia.

You've had some incredible luck there. I have never met a german veteran (not to meantion veterans) that cared for such details about camo items. To all of them it was "camo", not plane tree, oak or marsh pattern ... or pink... just "camo".

None of them knew where the stuff was made and none of them cared.

I wish I would have met just one veteran as enthusiastic about camo and its sources as your veterans.

Cheers

[RobertE]

Thanks very much for posting the smock stamps, Pete, as well as the additional trouser stamp shot. Between the smock and the trousers, we have a good comparison for the smock.

This is evidence that original, wartime items bear the same markings as the subject smock. Hopefully we won't just "so what" this away, and consider it for what it is: evidence that the pink smocks were in the same inventories as wartime garments.

regards, Robert

[Fritz]

Well, it would be a great proof if only those stamps wouldn't be faked since decades.

Cheers

[RobertE]

Eastern European film studio stamps have been faked, and you could debate for how long.

The stamps in the smocks have been around longer, and were a damning feature, not a plus. That's why many were cut-out or obliterated: either they could not be explained in collector context, or the military stores that released them did something to them.

Now that evidence of these same exact stamps on these smocks have been found in original items, they no longer matter because some film stamps are appearing in caps and other items? Please.

In these threads discussing the smocks to date, the identification of the stamps was viewed as one of the key to determining originaility of these smocks. At least, no one sounded off and said that the stamps were not really important - until they were found to be in original items, and identical. Now they really don't matter?

s/f Robert

[Fritz]

In these threads discussing the smocks to date, the identification of the stamps was viewed as one of the key to determining originaility of these smocks.

s/f Robert

Well, it was a key to many who believe(d) those smocks to be real as, IMO, they were longing for a glimmer of hope.



You are charging an open door as far as stamps in original items are concerned, I think no one here ever argued the existence of original studio or museum stamps in original items. But I will certainly point out that these stamps were well faked over the years.


I'd consider your scenario if:

A. These stamps wouldn't be faked.

B. No one would have a motive to put such a stamp onto such a smock.






I tried to follow the entire debate and, if I remember correctly, those "stamped specimens" of the pink smock turned up only recently (albeit it is "said" that they are in collections since "many" moons. But why weren't they documented much earlier in this ongoing debate?



It is exactly as you said, put that stamp onto a fake and the fake won't turn into an original.

At least, no one sounded off and said that the stamps were not really important

See post 327 for instance.


Cheers

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

we are all of us making hypothesis on various assumptions about 1) the pink smocks 2) the stamps.

We need a proof of the origins of those items, and who stamped them and for what.

Real and fake smocks can be marked with real or fake stamps.

The fact that is that real smocks with stamps are not a proof that pink smocks with the same real/fake stamps are real.

We need historical and technical proofs, more than we provided yet.
This discussion is very interesting, but we need to stay impartial on the subject.

This is not a rant against the pink smocks, this is a way to have more infos about the connection between pink smocks and those stamps.

Just to be sure, do we have pink smocks not stamped ?
Another question : anyone can contact the source that said the pink smocks were done by a british company for TV etc ?

See You

Vince

[Thorsten B.]

From the pics provided it seems that these stamps have been on the smocks for a really long time - was a collector´s price for an original smock already high in the 50ties, 60ties and early 70ties?

I highly doubt that.

It´s funny that it seems in the end all about these stamps...so represent these "pink" smocks - apart from the stamps - the perfect superfakes or what?!

[RobertE]

My point is that stamps that are known to be original are now confirmed to be the same ones that are in the smocks.

Before these stamps were found, they were listed as a potential key to the smocks authenticity; post 327 does not say that such stamps would not be of value -

In post 327, you state:

"...That doesn't work for me, even if they had a Kremlin stamp with Stalin's signature. Sorry."

You have stated your position on any stamping in these smocks, above. Given your criteria - that authoritative stamps carry no weight with you because you don't believe the smocks to be original - I understand why you would give little value to the discovery of identical stamps in original garments.

I don't view their discovery as the rosetta stone - but it is in favor of the smocks being original.

s/f Robert