"Pink" smock or not?

[besslein]

Tom can you post some shots from hbt pockets?

[Nico C]

Early this year, a "pink" smock was offered me at a belgian show by a seller, who was a former member of "Wallonie". It was in his collection for about 20 years orso.
But he couldn't tell if it was good or not. So, he offered it at a reasonable price.

[Palmenmuster]

Hello Arek,
Here comes the pockets, both smocks have the same pockets, no stampings or marks, both smocks have reinforcement cloth behind original sewn buttons on the "Brown" side.

Best regards, Tom.

[Palmenmuster]

Next

[Gran Sasso]

Both comes from the same source - Victory museum, Arlon in Belgium. A private museum made by a family collecting all sorts of German items in the aeria when the peace broke out. And NO, they didnt trade items with collectors, a family business witch lasted until around 1980 when both parents died.

Victory museum have dealt with collectors, and was fooled by fakes as well - for example their one-piece tankers-combination was a laugh.

[besslein]

Next

ok Tom and a last question pleas post buton holes and string holes photos

[Palmenmuster]

String hole - Smock nr. 1

[Palmenmuster]

Button hole - Smock nr. 1

The tread on pocketflap and buttonhole is green, totally different from the rest of the smock, the same on smock nr. 2.

[Palmenmuster]

String hole - Smock nr. 2

[Palmenmuster]

Pocket flap - Smock nr. 2

Both smocks are sewn in the same manner and with same tread colour, exept all pocketflaps on both smocks. They are sewn with a green tread, in my opinion this shows that there were different assembly stations down the production line. Hand sewn loop holes occur on many known originals and have to be a separate production in the assembly.

Best regards, Tom

[Josef Hahne]

Kameraden,
I'm completely enjoying this thread! There is a ton of great info being shared here. I've never handled an original Tarnhemd so please forgive me if my questions are stupid.

In the Tom's last foto of the pocket flap, it appears the button hole is lined with gimp cord. The button hole also appears to have been cut in the typical German WW2 "key hole" style. In my experience with other original German WW2 clothing articles, when there is gimp cord used and a keyhole cut buttonhole, normally the ends of the gimp cord are bartacked. This was not done here. The result looks more like the button hole on a pair of Levis jeans. Not that this proves anything one way or the other, I just noticed it and wondered on smocks was the bartacking just not done? It is my understanding that the bartack strengthens the buttonhole from tearing where the gimp cord ends come together. It is a reenforcement, if you will. It is an extra step in making a stronger buttonhole. If it was a late war made piece and that step was skipped for faster production, why use a separate machine to even install the gimp cord??

Sepp

[David T]

Regarding the "posed" photo that was posted and attibuted to Harper Nohren I think it needs to be clarified that the photo is of 2 individuals and is a collage.While I cannot comment on the photo of the indvidual on the left of the photo wearing an oakleaf smock ...the rottenfuhrer to the right wears an authentic plane tree #4 and is not a modern(1980s) re-creation photo.It is a period photo of a member of SS-Nachrichten-Abteilung 17 of the "Gotz von Berlichingen".

[Vinland]

re: bar tacking- good question- as i have heard items like parkas, kharkov and otherwise were not bartacked as well, simply corded keyholes.

[Palmenmuster]

Gentlemen,
The button holes are not reinforced with cord or anything else, the sewing is quite tight and "Fluffy". What you see in the pictures other than the tread, is endparts of the cloth underneath.

Best regards, Tom

[phild]

A couple of things have long struck me about the construction of these smocks.

1. The cord holes are hand reinforced and this is very labor intensive. Accepted orignal examples including many examples in Beaver's Camo book can be found both hand sewn and machine reinforced....it has always seemed too me unlikely that that would hand reinforce the string holes on hundreds of fake smocks.

2. As pointed out most all of these smocks that I have seen (not 100% however) clearly show thread that is only used to sew the pocket flaps and button holes that is unique to the rest of the smock. The thread is even much different that attaches the flap to the smock body. This tells me that the flaps were mass made at a different work station in the process and then attached to the smocks at yet again a different work station....this seems very un-likley for a fake set up operation...

Interesting is that in the Ravensbruck autobiography that I read (maybe published in the 1960s) the woman stated that one of her jobs in the KZ clothing factory was to sew only the pocket flaps for camo smocks and put them in a large bin. She was responsible for making a minimuim number of camo pocket flaps per day....this really struck me.

She also detailed how the worst job was to be assigned to the sorting and tear down/repair detail for all of the SS uniforms coming back from the front. These, she wrote, were very filthy, blood soaked and lice infested. Some of the uniforms were cleaned and repaired for re-issue and others were cleaned, broken down (buttons re-used etc...) and shredded for "new" wool....I wish that I still had the book as there was a wealth of information on SS camp uniform production from the standpoint of someone who actually made it.