Waffen-SS eagle...475/39...Good or bad?

[Coco]

Dear all,

These questions will never stop...what do you think of this one?

Thanks for your comments!

Best regards,

Coco

[Coco]

2

2

[BenVK]

[Ian Hulley]

Looks original, but with a soldered repair to the crimp.

Ian.

[bwanek1]

The features are correct for a Wagner, but, based on what I see in the photos, I would say this is a cast copy.

In addition to what appears to be physical signs of a casting, I believe the material is wrong. This looks like it could be CupAl, but, to my knowledge, 475/39 eagles were only originally made in aluminum and zinc. This crimp style was that used on the aluminum birds. This is clearly not aluminum and, rather than CupAl, it appears to be the brass or bronze-like material used to make high-quality castings. I bet it is quite heavy in comparison to an actual CupAl bird.

Brad

[militaria.no]

Hello Coco!

Here is one original zink I have for comparison. Take a good look at 3 and 9 in 39. They have a very different shape, especially the 9 (has a rounder shape on your eagle). I am not professionally enough to say original or reproduction, but just want to show the difference.

[militaria.no]

Front:

[bwanek1]

Here is one original zink I have for comparison. Take a good look at 3 and 9 in 39. They have a very different shape, especially the 9 (has a rounder shape on your eagle).

The difference you note is among the differences between the reverse dies used by wagner on the aluminum and zinc versions of the 475/39 eagles. Take a look at the back of this aluminum one (not mine). I believe the one this thread is about is a high-quality casting made from an original aluminum one like this.

[BenVK]

Interesting, it definitely fooled me.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Brad, I recognise that aluminium one it is mine.

Cheers, Ade.

[Ian Hulley]

Interesting, it definitely fooled me.

I had a nagging doubt looking at the edges, but otherwise me too

Ian.

[Pieter Verbruggen]

...I'll take it!
Pieter...

[SScollector]

I'll take it too. 475 eagles came in CupAl, as well as aluminum and zinc.
Also, the aluminum 475 eagles are not the only ones with this style of crimps. I have a zinc one with the same crimps, (475/39, same die
as the aluminum ones).
Anyway, I can see nothing wrong with this eagle, but better pictures would be necessary to be 100% sure. The finish looks great.

Best,
Chris

[bwanek1]

I'll take it too. 475 eagles came in CupAl, as well as aluminum and zinc.
Also, the aluminum 475 eagles are not the only ones with this style of crimps. I have a zinc one with the same crimps, (475/39, same die
as the aluminum ones).
Anyway, I can see nothing wrong with this eagle, but better pictures would be necessary to be 100% sure. The finish looks great.

Best,
Chris

Chris,

If this is an authentic CupAl 475/39, it is certainly the first one I have encountered. After reading your last post, I did a search of forum to see if I could find another one in any old thread and I could not. However, ironically, I did run across an old post of yours from two years ago in which you stated the same experience as mine (that you had only encountered them in aluminum and zinc). I guess you must have found one in CupAl since then. If you have some photos of another example, I would love to see them.

As for this one, even if 475/39 CupAl eagles did exist, I remain unconvinced that this one is authentic based on the photos. To me, the edges still look sloppy and it just looks heavy. Also, I find the presence of solder highly suspicious on a crimped piece. As for that finish, I agree that it looks original, but so does the finish on this cast fake Zimmermann skull:



You may be right about this eagle, Chris, but I am still leaning toward it being a quality cast copy. I certainly respect your expertise, but I would still need a hands-on inspection of this one before I will agree that it is original.

Best,
Brad

[SScollector]

Hello Brad!

You could be right, as well. I didn't say that it is definitely original
and I'm not sure that it is. However, I am leaning way towards it being
original and I can't find anything wrong with it.
Yes, I saw an original CupAl 475 marked eagle, long after that thread
you mentioned. I've got pictures of it, but I doubt that I can find them,
as my computer crashed and when I backed up my files, I forgot to put them in the named folders, so I quit naming them and now they are all dumped in together. The problem is that I have over 300,000 pictures. LOL! So, I rarely even bother to try to find anything, but I will look for a while. As for the finish, I know it don't mean much, but I was just stating that the finish and the details on the front,
look very good to me. Also, the area that looks like solder, in my opinion, appears to actually
be aging. Look at the area around the swastika on the back side and all around the back side. It is very dark like the tips of the wings and around the crimps. I wish I could see a better shot of the crimps.

Anyway, if we could get some better pictures , I'm sure that we would both know if it is real or not. It's almost impossible to tell on
some pieces without great photos.

Best,
Chris