LAH Cyphers & Insignia Set on e-Stand

[Stahlhelm]

Hello everyone,

Since Francesco did invite anyone to request a discussion of his LAH items posted on the e-stand, I am volunteering to do that. My main question is what do you think about the metal LAH cyphers? I've seen a number of these, but it's always a tough call for me, because I just don't get to see quite enough of them. Also, one of the most telling details to inspect is always the reverse side mirror-image ribbing, which is always ironically but necessarily hidden. When cyphers are original, I understand that's it's not even smart to bend the pins and remove them for inspection, as they could easily break-off. So, anytime anyone even considers purchasing something that expensive and rarely-seen, it is only smart to ask for a discussion--particularly when there is opportunity.

While you're at it, please also comment on the other insignia grouped with it. Here's a link to the post:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=244140

Thanks to all who comment. Also, thanks to Francesco for kindly inviting anyone to request a forum discussion.

Chris

[Stahlhelm]

An Answer without a Response!

Thanks to all,

The lack of a single response, after 143 viewings so far, has actually provided me with a great deal of information about the question I asked. Yes, sometimes silence speaks very loudly. These cyphers are obviously an authentication issue of far greater difficulty than even I had originally imagined--and I do understand that. So, my question is ironically quite well answered anyway.

Thanks to all who viewed!

Chris

[Felix]

I cant tell for sure about the LAH cyphers. I think others with more knowledge can hopefully fill in.

The rest of the insignias looks fine. The sleeve eagle is a beauty.

[besslein]

here my boards,10000000% good -buy from the orginal owner

[Stahlhelm]

Felix,

I also agree that the rest of the insignia does look fine.

Chris

[John Pic]

Silence as far as Im concerned is because personally I feel that you should do your own research on such items and come to your own conclusions. I think the cyphers are good ones Ive only handled a couple sets of real ones and loads of fakes,these do not look like any of the fakes. But fakes of these have been produced since the wars end stamped and cast you just have to like what your getting.

[Stahlhelm]

besslein,

Thanks for posting the original examples from your collection for comparison! That is certainly helpful!

I must admit that I got burned on an expensive bad pair of those cyphers a couple of years ago. The unscrupulous dealer was unfortunately very believable and talked a good line of bull which I was unfortunately naive enough to believe at the time. So I vowed to study those things very carefully from then on and ask lots of questions first. It's just the only smart way to shop for this kind of thing. As I said, it's just that authentic examples of these cyphers are so difficult to find anywhere.

I've even had a number of dealers tell me that metal LAH cyphers are too hard to authenticate to even buy for the price they SHOULD bring, so they just stay away from them altogether. Although the cyphers are things I really want to add to my collection, it just seems that it is almost too risky to do it.

Chris

P.S. My comments above are in NO WAY meant to make any determinations about Francesco's cyphers perse. As I stated earlier, I really don't know enough about them to even know anything for sure. That's why I posted the thread requesting a discussion. As I said earlier, a full inspection is pretty much unreasonable for the preservation of the cyphers, considering their age and the likely fragility of the prongs. I mean how many times can you really bend and remove 60+ year-old metal prongs for prospective buyers, before suddenly....SNAP!!!

[Stahlhelm]

John Pic,

I, in no way, intended for anyone to do any research for me. I have already done much research on my own. I was just very sincerely asking for existing opinions from those members who may already own and know more about 100% authentic cyphers. For example, besslein's kind posting of his cyphers is exactly the type of help I was looking for--a helpful response involving no research or real work on the part of any member. I simply consider the opportunity to receive experienced opinions from others to be one of the great things about this forum. That is, in fact, a good example of what you could also call further research on my part.

It's true that opinions shouldn't do all the thinking for you, but they do help. I was only looking for help. After all, I think that's what this forum should be all about. Everyday, members give one another the thumb-up/thumbs-down, good or bad responses, and that's really all I was looking for here myself. Like I said, I've been burned rather severely on these things in the past, and I like to use whatever resources and experiences I can in researching, learning, and making better choices. Suggesting that I should do my own research and not ask for opinions is almost an insult. However, in the spirit of respect and kindness, I will choose not to be insulted, and instead be appreciative that you responded at all.

So, in any case, thanks for your response as well...

Chris

[Lloyd I.]

I believe from the originals I have handled that the ones offered up for sale are good as is the rest of the grouping. That is based on the quality photos he posted as well. He made every effort to show them from the best angles. Not common from someone who is shady. Im better with boards then I am with tabs.

To qualify my statement I have looked at one pair of original LAH ciphers that were still mounted and a set that was loose and a whole mess of fakes that didnt and did come close to those originals ones I examined. I used to own three sets of GD ciphered boards as well and learned what to look for on those because of their value and my interest in them at the time.

I believe John Pics statement is more his mindset of learning to spot based on experience. The problem is how often do any of us have the chance to handle real deal LAH ciphered boards? Umm, me thinks not often and usually not in groups. He is also correct on these being produced post war but that is true of many awards and medals that were also not wartime but made on the same dies for the souvenier market that supplemented post war Germans.

Unfortunately with values on these items it is a very expensive mistake to make and you are right to seek 2nd opinions.

I swear on this PAK.

[Lloyd I.]

here my boards,10000000% good -buy from the orginal owner

Completely unfair but I know what I want for Christmas now.

[Stahlhelm]

Somehow this post double-posted, when I made a small edit/addition. So, since the following post is the complete, final edit, I just deleted the duplicate that was here, and instead provided something different for you to read, before you get to the next post...

Oh well, I guess I should have just left the double post and forgot the explanation. This is taking too much time....

Chris

[Stahlhelm]

Thanks Lloyd L.,

That really is some very helpful information and advice you posted, and I really do appreciate it. Those are some important facts that I don't think I could have ever found in a book, even if I tried.

Also, based on some of Francesco's newly-posted cypher photos, even I agree that they look as good as any originals I've ever seen. I also agree that a person's immediate willingness to provide such detailed photos also says a lot in answering such questions. It's all about evaluting every single thing with every resource you have. Thanks again for helping out with that.

Chris

[Stahlhelm]

Completely unfair but I know what I want for Christmas now.

Well Lloyd L., it looks like we both want the same thing for Christmas...

Chris

[SJP]

I'll pass,the reverse side might make me change my mind but I doubt it.
VG copies IMO.Thanks Francesco for the additional photo's
__________________________________________________ _______________

These are indication's of casting.It could be how the photo make's it appear.It also gives me the impression it's been off the board.The first thing the owner should do to verify it's authenticity is remove it and look at the reverse.
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Cheers Steve

[willysproject]

Here are mine The ones Francesco has appeal to me

Kind regards,
Gerd V