WaffenSS-tunic

[madandi]

I allways want a SS-tunic and see two of them on the site of Kai Winkler.
Number 4267 and 9155.
Can you teach me if there are red flags on these Uniforms. I never had a real SS-tunic in my hand, "only" armytunics So i need your help.

[besslein]

I allways want a SS-tunic and see two of them on the site of Kai Winkler.
Number 4267 and 9155.
Can you teach me if there are red flags on these Uniforms. I never had a real SS-tunic in my hand, "only" armytunics So i need your help.

I have never seen a real good one from this dealer,the are for me all frankenstein tunic,so I will not check this on hes site,simple I know the answer,it is only my option but I think im not wrong
check better e-stand here and you will finde one original.

[tgn]

If you want an SS tunic, find a stripped one and put on original insignia. Yours would then be as original (maybe even more so) than any found on dealer sites, especially those from the "Hamburg Mafia"...Tom

[besslein]

If you want an SS tunic, find a stripped one and put on original insignia. Yours would then be as original (maybe even more so) than any found on dealer sites, especially those from the "Hamburg Mafia"...Tom

wow you know abaut "hamburg mafia" it is well know in Germany ,and now I see not only in Reich but worldweide

[tgn]

It's a small world among collectors...Tom

[John Pic]

Have any of you ever actually examined a tunic from any of the Hamburg dealers? Ive looked at at least 5 in hand at least 3 of them had IMO no signs of being messed with.I know onf one a collector has now that he has gone over backwards and forwards and it has no signs of any messing with and the tunic itself was definately not newly assembled.
One was possibly reworked and the other was an NCO tunic with the shadow of a breast eagle someone brought to the SOS.

I see critique of the "Hamburg Mafia" here well what about the "Chicago Mob" Panzer Liar JeffB and the mysterious Steve????? from the California Music store who supposedly made the Panzer Wrap that fooled B.N. Singer and other collectors for 27 years, so well they want to keep his name a secret.Without capture papers and period photos just about any SS tunic out there is suspect no matter who it came from. Imagine a tunic that people were willing to lie and say they knew where it came from so it had to be real.

Im not defending the Hamburg crew or the dealers in Britain or the dealers here but when you think about it the double standards applied in this hobby all because of struggle for recognition and a name are hypocritical at best.One must remember that if Hamburgs tunics are "fake" then Chicagos tunics are "extremely rare" and more valuable and dont try and touch Long Beach tunics because your name isnt Trump.

I agree with tgn a real SS tunic with restored insignias is probably the best unless you want to find the named proven piece and try to pry it from the hands of the owners for thousands.Even then do you know it wasnt restored when it was found? I know of at least one named piece that was restored after being purchased stripped and is never talked about as such.
All in all if your a first time buyer dont buy from a dealer wait and ask around.

[dukhunter]

John,

Quick question, please. How about Allgemeine tunics, do they stand a better chance of being unmessed with than the W-SS pieces or is it easier to detect if one has been horsed with?

Thanks,
George

[tgn]

I know of at least one named piece that was restored after being purchased stripped and is never talked about as such.

John, I also know of a named Waffen-SS officer tunic that was found stripped and carefully restored using period photos of the officer wearing it. I don't think anyone is trying to represent that one as not being restored, but even restored, I would dearly like to own it. It is a beautiful piece, restored or not. This is probably not the one you are referring to, though.

Tom

[tgn]

John,

Quick question, please. How about Allgemeine tunics, do they stand a better chance of being unmessed with than the W-SS pieces or is it easier to detect if one has been horsed with?

Thanks,
George

Allgemine-SS tunics are easier to mess with than Waffen-SS. First, there is liitle chance that there was once a breast eagle to "hide", and all the insignia is applied with black thread, which is easy to acquire...Tom

[besslein]

Have any of you ever actually examined a tunic from any of the Hamburg dealers? Ive looked at at least 5 in hand at least 3 of them had IMO no signs of being messed with.I know onf one a collector has now that he has gone over backwards and forwards and it has no signs of any messing with and the tunic itself was definately not newly assembled.
One was possibly reworked and the other was an NCO tunic with the shadow of a breast eagle someone brought to the SOS.

I see critique of the "Hamburg Mafia" here well what about the "Chicago Mob" Panzer Liar JeffB and the mysterious Steve????? from the California Music store who supposedly made the Panzer Wrap that fooled B.N. Singer and other collectors for 27 years, so well they want to keep his name a secret.Without capture papers and period photos just about any SS tunic out there is suspect no matter who it came from. Imagine a tunic that people were willing to lie and say they knew where it came from so it had to be real.

Im not defending the Hamburg crew or the dealers in Britain or the dealers here but when you think about it the double standards applied in this hobby all because of struggle for recognition and a name are hypocritical at best.One must remember that if Hamburgs tunics are "fake" then Chicagos tunics are "extremely rare" and more valuable and dont try and touch Long Beach tunics because your name isnt Trump.

I agree with tgn a real SS tunic with restored insignias is probably the best unless you want to find the named proven piece and try to pry it from the hands of the owners for thousands.Even then do you know it wasnt restored when it was found? I know of at least one named piece that was restored after being purchased stripped and is never talked about as such.
All in all if your a first time buyer dont buy from a dealer wait and ask around.

Im original from Hamburg-Bergedorf

[dukhunter]

Thanks tgn,

I hear much about W-SS tunics being messed with but not a whole lot of mention about the Allgemeine stuff. I've certainly been hearing stories about A-SS tunics being made up overseas but what I've heard is that these things are basically being made from scratch, not existing tunics just having insignia added.

Thanks,
George

[John Pic]

I honestly think there are more intact Allgemeine tunics but as Tom points out you cant tell with black thread on black cloth so easy without the age factor. There are probably more restored ones than not.

It might be interesting to discuss why its so important to own the "untouched" example. Many untouched pieces are just that, untouched,rarely if ever worn or worn in dress.Pretty to look at and holding value better but for the most part the tunic that was used in the field to me is more appealing to me. I read the tales of officer in thier combat roles of the Waffen SS and the beat field uniform for me is the ultimate. The problem is they are not easy to find intact.I have this one im working on restoring it is a super rare SS drill tunic it only has the remnants of the RZM label and the shadows of the insignias. I can clearly see he was a highly decorated Hauptsturmfuhrer because the pips went through the collar and there are indents where the litzen sat.He had a cufftitle but who knows what unit he could have been?When its done I will share the pics for everyone.Beat faded and smelling of old leather thats how I like them.

[John Pic]

I think the made from scratch stories need a deeper look and are a bit far fetched. Although I get suspicious of really mint tunics I see hundreds of WW2 US Ike Jackets in perfect condition on racks in Vintage clothing stores here in Portland not a blemish of age on them. It takes alot of money and time and mint insignia sets to accomplish. One would have to come up with some original rare complete matching insignia sets to build an Allgemeine tunic.

[Robert H]

Messing or not messing, be aware and check out if the tunic by self is original or not as this is most importend. Enough original cloth material is availible in Germany but this started already years ago ...
A real complete untouched W-SS tunic is for me mostly same as rare as a complete untouched black tunic.

[phild]

Have any of you ever actually examined a tunic from any of the Hamburg dealers? Ive looked at at least 5 in hand at least 3 of them had IMO no signs of being messed with.I know onf one a collector has now that he has gone over backwards and forwards and it has no signs of any messing with and the tunic itself was definately not newly assembled.
One was possibly reworked and the other was an NCO tunic with the shadow of a breast eagle someone brought to the SOS.

I see critique of the "Hamburg Mafia" here well what about the "Chicago Mob" Panzer Liar JeffB and the mysterious Steve????? from the California Music store who supposedly made the Panzer Wrap that fooled B.N. Singer and other collectors for 27 years, so well they want to keep his name a secret.Without capture papers and period photos just about any SS tunic out there is suspect no matter who it came from. Imagine a tunic that people were willing to lie and say they knew where it came from so it had to be real.

Im not defending the Hamburg crew or the dealers in Britain or the dealers here but when you think about it the double standards applied in this hobby all because of struggle for recognition and a name are hypocritical at best.One must remember that if Hamburgs tunics are "fake" then Chicagos tunics are "extremely rare" and more valuable and dont try and touch Long Beach tunics because your name isnt Trump.

I agree with tgn a real SS tunic with restored insignias is probably the best unless you want to find the named proven piece and try to pry it from the hands of the owners for thousands.Even then do you know it wasnt restored when it was found? I know of at least one named piece that was restored after being purchased stripped and is never talked about as such.
All in all if your a first time buyer dont buy from a dealer wait and ask around.

Excellent response above. These German dealers are at least as honest and learned on militaria as any group that I have dealt with and more so than many, at least in my experience.