Oberbayern Cuff Title

[TonyS]

Bob and Robin (and others) might like to comment on this one.

I don't have enough knowledge in this area to refute the original posters claim.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=1#post1946205

[Bob Hritz]

I owned that cuff title for many-many years. I traded it to Rich Turner some years ago.

Bob Hritz

[Hohenstaufen]

Hello, Well, this is one reason that I stayed away from getting one of these for many years. The hand embroidered fakes are some of the best around and there are a lot of them out there. I finally found one that I was comfortable with at this past SOS in Louisville. It came from a reliable source with a lot of provenance. Anyway, here it is to compare to. Bare in mind that all of these types of cuff titles were hand done and variations can exist, but the thing to watch for is basic characteristics. Although, IMHO, the quality of the scull doesn't compare to mine, but like I mentioned these can vary from the embroiderer. I have seen scull collar tabs that you would swear that they are fake, because they look butt ugly, but they are truly genuine. The characteristics of the tab were consistant to other known originals. Anyway, that is my two cents worth about the cuff band in question. Regards, Grant

[Hohenstaufen]

close-up

[Felix]

Hohenstaufen;

Very nice cuff title! Got to be the most eye pleasing TK bullion cuff I have ever seen! Thats the quality you expect, or maybe yours is even over that expectation.

"Felix" - N. Hansson

[TonyS]

Grant, yours is probably the best one I have seen. Very nice.

I own the top one in this photo.

[Felix]

Hohenstaufen;

It looks like they have used the paper template on your cuff that was used for the collar tabs. I dont know if this was common practice? Im not a TK collector myself. But the template should fit nicely to a cuff as well regarding to size? Or did they use a smaller template? And as your cuff is a very early pice, that might explain the high quality. For other bullion skull cuffs maybe the not so good quality could be explained because of a later manufacture. But I still think the really sloppy bullion TK's on some cuffs cant even be explained with the late war manufacture in mind. Maybe some sloppiness could be explained by the looser ground for embrodery, regarding the cloth weave of a cuff title in comparison to a collar tab? Simply due to wear and it loose the original symmetry a bit. Most collar tabs with a similar sloppy manufacturing would probaly not be accepted as originals without a good pedigree.

"Felix" - N. Hansson

[Robin Lumsden]

The tight embroidery and square jaw-line on the skull posted by Grant is what I like to see.

But maybe I'm just too picky.

[Bob Hritz]

Here are a few unusual pattern Totenkopf collar tabs. All are original, but certainly not up to the earliest standards.

I believe it is the templates used as well as the skill of the person doing the embroidery. If you look at RZM bullion sleeve eagles, you will see huge varuiances in style and quality of workmanship.

Bob hritz

[Bob Hritz]

Another unusual skull

[Bob Hritz]

Another oddball

[Panzer Rob]

Grant-

Your example is one I would be 100% comfortable with owning, no doubt about that one imho. I can relate to you with being very hesitant about adding one of these cuff titles to your collection. As with anything hand-embroidered you are always going to have slight variations from piece to piece, but considering the quality of some of the fakes on these it's very, very hard for anyone without a lot of hands-on experience to know where to “draw the line” so to speak. Notice how clean, neat and tight the embroidery is on your example, and how the TK fits perfectly within the boarders. This is not meant to discredit the CT in question - I highly value Bob's seal of approval (I like the CT's in Tony's post, especially the third variation ) but considering the prices these are commanding these days I'd personally hold out for one with the same level of quality and detail as yours, Grant.

Killer piece.

Rob

Hello, Well, this is one reason that I stayed away from getting one of these for many years. The hand embroidered fakes are some of the best around and there are a lot of them out there. I finally found one that I was comfortable with at this past SOS in Louisville. It came from a reliable source with a lot of provenance. Anyway, here it is to compare to. Bare in mind that all of these types of cuff titles were hand done and variations can exist, but the thing to watch for is basic characteristics. Although, IMHO, the quality of the scull doesn't compare to mine, but like I mentioned these can vary from the embroiderer. I have seen scull collar tabs that you would swear that they are fake, because they look butt ugly, but they are truly genuine. The characteristics of the tab were consistant to other known originals. Anyway, that is my two cents worth about the cuff band in question. Regards, Grant

[Robin Lumsden]

Here's what I mean by tight embroidery.............see how the bones are perfectly aligned...............

[Robin Lumsden]

Another..........tight and with aligned bones.

I prefer to hold out for the well made ones as well, although original TK bullion items of any type are very hard to get.

[Panzer Rob]

Robin-

Two absolute gems Wow!!!

Rob