Your opinions on this SS Sturmgeschützjacke...

[SiNiStEr]

Hello there,

I just tried to post this whole story but the site wouldn't load so I had to type it over again. That's the reason it became a somewhat smaller post, but ok...

Anyway, I got offered this SS Sturmgeschützjacke of a SS-Unterscharführer of the 2nd SS panzer division "Das Reich". I like the jacket but it's not cheap so if I buy it, I want to be 100% sure that it's an original jacket. So I hope you guys can help me out.

It seems that we are dealing with a mouse-grey private purchase jacket here. The jacket is in pretty good condition and is made of Drillichstoff but not with the Fischgrät motive.
The shoulderpads and collartabs are the correct one's for a SS-Unterscharführer and seem ok to me as far as their not partically covered up but I come to that later.
At the left arm sleeve the "Das Reich" cuff title can be seen(allthough not very well) and the shadow of the SS arm insignia and the place where a sleeve insignia has been can be seen. The owner of the jacket is probably promoted so the sleeve insignia had to be removed and the SS arm insignia could have been removed at the end of the war. Of cause these reasons for removale of these two insignia are just suggestive...
The jacket has been in the collection of the seller for more then 20 years and he sells a part of his collection now.

That's about all I can tell you about the jacket, the rest can be seen on the photo's.

More photo's are requested and are comming up as soon as I get them. I also asked for the photo's which does show the SS-runes and the "Das Reich" cufftitle. These were covered up because this a the pictures the seller also used to place the jacket on a sale site.

Normally I don't have so much to do with Waffen SS colectibles so I don't know that much about them. I know there are allot of fakes offered on the market and that some of them are of a very high quality so that's why I ask you guys. This jacket isn't the standard or much used type of panzer jackets so there won't be much reason to fake this one but you never know, that's why I ask.

Hopefully you guys are willing and able to help me with this, thanks in advance!!!

[Francesco]

Never seen nothing like this!
The tunic is a bad repro as the boards!
About the tabs these are not visible.

All the best
Francesco

[Bobwirtz]

I have a very low confidence level in this piece -- tunic and insignia. More pictures will definitely help but from what I can see in these photos, I have doubts.

Bob

[SiNiStEr]

Thanks for the reply's guys!

Never seen nothing like this!
The tunic is a bad repro as the boards!
About the tabs these are not visible.

All the best
Francesco

Never seen doesn't mean, never used. Esspecially with private purchases. I'm not saying that you are right or wrong, I believe you if you say it's a bad fake but then I would like to know what's so wrong about the boards? The green piece of vilt is ripped from the underside of the boards for one reason or another but further they seem okay to me.
And one of the collar tabs can be seen, namely the one with the pip/rank star. The other one I hope to receive pictures from very soon.

I have a very low confidence level in this piece -- tunic and insignia. More pictures will definitely help but from what I can see in these photos, I have doubts.

Bob

I have doubts too, that's why I ask you guys. I will provide extra pictures when I get them.

[willysproject]

Great story, bad tunic and (most likely also) insignia...

It's very easy to understand why the owner wants to get rid of it, IMO...

As to SS tunics, whenever you hear the phrase "It's a private tailored" or "It's private purchased" You should be very careful... As to mediocre collectors, all crappy pieces receive the label "private purchased" by them, so in their mind all can get passed of as original to unknowing, novice collectors.

The boards are very crappy made and I have serious concerns on the whole piece...
The insignia will likely be fake, but I am anxious to see more pics...

EDIT: could you please also post a pic of the rank tab and the back of the collar lapel of the rank tab?

Kind regards,
Gerd V

Never seen doesn't mean, never used. Esspecially with private purchases.

[bucatar]

boards may be be front made

[Fred S]

boards may be be front made

No, POW made, where he was promoted to Uscha....

[SiNiStEr]

@Willysproject: Thanks for your reply, of couse it could be a perfect excuse, I am aware of that. But it doesn't have to be fake in the first place because it's a private made jacket. If the insignia are correct and so, the jacket could be too. Anyway, I just got an email of the seller that the jacket is allready sold to another person so I don't need to worry about this jacket anymore. It might be better this way, I could have lost allot of money if I decided to go for the jacket.

@Bucatar: According to the seller the boards were hand tailorred indeed, but as willysproject allready says, that could be a good excuse too sell bad replica boards as originals.


So thanks to you all for your reply's but as I allready said the jacket is sold and I guess that I won't get the photo's anymore as there is no point in sending me the pictures any longer for the seller. I much apreciated the help of you guys!!!

[Bobwirtz]

There's always good reason to post more photos of it... for members to study and learn and to keep track of such items. We come across these time and again and it's good to have reference materials on them.

I don't agree that it is "Private or Tailor made"... it looks more like "Field made" to me and with that comes the difficult job of proving one way or another whether it was field made in 1942 or 1982. Yes, it could have been in a collector for 20 years and the collector is now finding out that it is a bad piece and has elected to get rid of it. Obviously somebody who doesn't visit here has been sucked into buying it. How long will it be in their collection before the truth is known?

Bob of Little Faith

[willysproject]

Or maybe the seller was reading this topic as well...

Could you please reveal the price he wanted for it? If the price was lower than the price for the original insignia, that could have meant a lot... And could have been a bad sign...
Too bad we can't see the pics of the insignia though...

Kind regards,
Gerd V

[SiNiStEr]

There's always good reason to post more photos of it... for members to study and learn and to keep track of such items. We come across these time and again and it's good to have reference materials on them.

Of course there are enough reasons for me and for all of you but not for him cause he allready sold the jacket. Or he readed this topic too as Willysproject allready said and said this to me so his jacket couldn't be stated as a fake. I must admit that this thought has passed my mind too.

I don't agree that it is "Private or Tailor made"... it looks more like "Field made" to me and with that comes the difficult job of proving one way or another whether it was field made in 1942 or 1982. Yes, it could have been in a collector for 20 years and the collector is now finding out that it is a bad piece and has elected to get rid of it. Obviously somebody who doesn't visit here has been sucked into buying it. How long will it be in their collection before the truth is known?

Bob of Little Faith

At a closer look field made would be a better possibility indeed. The man called it a non-standard issue summer jacket. I think it's hardly possible to tell whether the jacket is made in 1942 or in 1982. Maybe, if there would have been a better possibility to study the insignia, we could have been able to tell if the insignia were fake or original. This would have been a great help to tell some more about the jacket itself.

Or maybe the seller was reading this topic as well...

Could you please reveal the price he wanted for it? If the price was lower than the price for the original insignia, that could have meant a lot... And could have been a bad sign...
Too bad we can't see the pics of the insignia though...

Kind regards,
Gerd V

Well, I'm afraid I can't name a price. He offered me the jacket with the question if I was interested in the jacket. I didn't mentioned a price yet but he said that the jacket, self-evident, wouldn't be cheap. I asked him about the price in the email in which I also asked for the extra photo's but because he sold the jacket he didn't mentioned the price anymore.
It's indeed a pitty that we haven't be able to examn the insignia some more.

[Bobwirtz]

You mean he asked you if you were interested in it and then turned around and sold it behind your back before you could make a decision? I think you’re better off without this particular piece. Save your money for something better – something that jumps off the table at you, grabs you by the throat and declares, “I’m good – a one looker!”

Bob

[sturmbannfuhrer]

You mean he asked you if you were interested in it and then turned around and sold it behind your back before you could make a decision? I think you’re better off without this particular piece. Save your money for something better – something that jumps off the table at you, grabs you by the throat and declares, “I’m good – a one looker!”

Bob

Well said Bob, flogging a dead horse is a good description for this piece.

[willysproject]

Hi,

I can't agree more... It's better too pay a little too much for an unquestionable good piece than to put money in questionable 'fishy' items, wheter it's a tunic, insignia, etc...

Kind regards,
Gerd V

Well said Bob, flogging a dead horse is a good description for this piece.

[Bobwirtz]

I was hoping we could get better pictures of the tunic (to include interior) and insignia for our FAKES FILES… I think it’s good to have a reference of it in case some day it shows up again for an appraisal. It’s also good to be able to track these as they go from one collection to another. But I guess we’ll have to live without this one in the reference files.