What Uniform, rank, etc

[pzrwest]

I found this pic in a book on the MP40. Ir shows an SS man(on the left) but I'm puzzled at what rank he is. Also what uniform is he wearing? He is wearing no collar tabs, his shoulder board is for a private, there is some kind of sleave band but appears to be too narrow for a cuff title, and the stripes look too narrow to be dual tresse. Can anyone shed some light on this?

[herrgeezer]

Hello pzrwest.

The tunic is an M43, the straps are for an EM, but the tresse looks like it would be a der Spiess. Perhaps this man has changed his rank for combat reasons since he is also missing his rank tab as well. As an NCO he would be a prime target for a sniper.

[Fred S]

I have to check (and find the right book )but it remebers me some rare pics of the Dirlewanger in Warsaw.

[Basil]

I have to check (and find the right book )but it remebers me some rare pics of the Dirlewanger in Warsaw.

I agree. the picture appears in French Maclean's book 'Cruel Hunters' and does suggest they are members of the Dirlewanger Brigade.

[Fred S]

I'm not 100% sure and hard to find docs about it but I believe that the early Dirlewanger's brigade members were issued form disciplinary camps, and were all back to the rank of ss schutze? And didn't wear the runes. Am I wrong? Any update?

[hochiminhtrail]

SS dirlewanger with stripes

Hy

the two stripes are normaly beeing issued to soldier in the rehabliliatation process, those stripes were issued allready at the military prison and probably later worn by troops in the field, if i rember well the stripes were worn on two sleeves, normally all other ss insignias would have been taken off, the stripes were made of white clothing, probabyl cotton.

i did read a very well documented book about this, but i cant recall the name it has ben to long ago.

cherers

Alex

[NickG]

This is a well known and puzzling picture. Also the flamethrower guy makes it an interesting shot. I have always adhered to heergeezer's post, explaining that its a Spiess with downranked shoulderboards, but alex.pionier's theory is an interesting one and plausibe if we are indeed dealing with Dirlewanger (disciplinary) troops! Fits the bill perfectly! but I have never heard of such "probation" stripes. Can anybody else shed a light on this? as I find it an interesting explanation, not covered in any of my reference books and I have a huge library. Intriguing, as I own a white HBT fatigue/drill tunic with such stripes (spiess like)! Nick

[Chris_Werner]

I know this photo. It is the Dirlewanger during the Warsaw uprising, I believe. This unit was made up of convicts, criminals and the bottom of the barrel types. They did not wear SS Runes but had a tab with crossed stick grenades, I believe.

[Panzer Rob]

Well, at least they didn't strip him of his KVK.II m.s.

Interesting thread. I have read very little about the Dirlewanger troops but know even less about them.

Very informative.

Rob

[NickG]

A nice Dirlewanger picture with uniform details was posted not too long ago in the below link, but no "probation stripes" on the cuffs... if that indeed existed... Nick
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ht=dirlewanger

[hochiminhtrail]

SS Prison Danzig Matzkau issued the white stripes

hello again

i m pleased that it does interst some of you, the report i had came frome a book it was a personal account of a trooper being sent to the SS prison Danzig Matzkau, this prison was were some of the soldiers waited before going on trial, very unfurtunatly i do not recall the books name, shame on me.
But i clearly recall the name of the SS prison as being Danzig-Matzkau, and there they got their cotton stripes on both sleeves, in the book the soldier said that they were sent straight from the prison to Dirlewanger unit to fight at the uprising in Warschau, so maybe some of the newly arrived troops there didnt have time to remove the straps on time because they were sent straight to battle.

1)So question were the stripes only used in Danzig Matzkau or later used in the Dirlewanger brigade?

2) we must not forget that the personal account was from a fellow SS soldier in a SS prison and not a concentarion camp inmate that was forced to join the rank of the Dirlewanger unit, so that not all men were wearing whit stripes because not all came from Danzig Matzkau prison.

cheers

Alex

[hochiminhtrail]

does anybody else have any further information on the prison of Danzig Matzkau, entries in id booklets or other sort of documentation??

Alex