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Metal shield from SS-Oberabschnitt Nordost

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    Metal shield from SS-Oberabschnitt Nordost

    Dear reader,

    Recently I went through some photographs I took while I was a student in Moscow in 1991. I then visited a militaria collector and was allowed to photograph his collection. Well, while going through my photos I found an image I had just about forgotten about, showing a metal shield from the SS-Oberabschnitt Nordost with an old-style Totenkopf. I have since never seen such a shield in any book, nor on the web.

    As I do not want my photo of the shield reproduced elsewhere I will not post it on the web. But I can describe it as much as I can (if you need to know more - ask me here on the forum).

    The complete text on it reads "SS-Oberabschnitt Nordost. Wintertag des `Schwarzen Korps´ 4 Februar 1934".

    I stress that the Totenkopf is of the old style and at the bottom is the skyline of Königsberg - several old buildings.

    I did not measure it (I was not that interested at the time), but I reckon it was the size of the later campaign shields (Narvik shield etc).

    Judging from my memory of the size and three holes (one at each point) I presume it was intended for uniform wear. The Moscow collector´s shield was mounted on a dark scrap of cloth. I am not sure it was black cloth as my photo is black-and-white. But I presume it may have been faded black. Furthermore I presume the shield was worn on an arm.

    I understand that the SS-Oberabschnitt Nordost means the Allgemeine-SS in the Königsberg area, which is today the Kaliningrad region in Russia. This fits with my memory of the Russian collector saying that many items in his collection came from that area, where he often went in search of new items. I stress that this was in 1991, before fakes were common in Russia, and that I was not trying to buy the shield. I therefore conclude that the shield that I photographed was and is genuine.

    I have absolutely no memory of even having been offered the shield and I believe I also didn´t ask about the price (with hindsight I should have asked) as I don´t collect SS militaria myself - but I do like to learn about it. Know I´d like to learn some more: anything more about it, but especially:

    1. If it indeed was worn on the uniform (arm)?
    2. If it could be considered as the first German arm shield ever?
    3. Which other, if any, metal SS arm shields were there? (I of course know that a bunch were made of cloth during the war, with various flags)

    Best of all would be if someone could post a photo of one being worn, or recommend a book with such a photo and/or more info on the shield itself.

    Sincerely,

    LG

    #2
    It was not for wearing on the arm.

    It was mounted on a plaque as a commemorative for SS men attending the event.

    Weitze sold one a few years ago, and here is a link to one that appeared in a Thies catalogue.........


    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=j>PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
    Wintertag der Schwarzen Garde – 4. Februar 1934. Der Sockel aus grünem Marmor mit. aufgelegter Metallplakette. 110 x 70 mm. Zustand 1 – 2. ...
    www.andreas-thies.de/pdf_<WBR>24_auktion/24Katalog_Teil_3.pdf - </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

    Comment


      #3
      here is style....I am still on the fence about these...
      Attached Files

      Comment


        #4
        John.

        I have some lingering doubts about these too.

        The design is very good, and the skull is actually a hybrid between a hussar skull and the regular SS type. It's like a hussar skull with a lower jaw.

        The SS skull with lower jaw was introduced generally later that same year (1934).

        The plaque I handled some years ago had a 'modern alloy' feel about it......if you know what I mean. It's one of these plaques that actually looks better in a photo than it does when handled.

        Maybe I'm being paranoid........the one in your photo DOES look good.
        Last edited by Robin Lumsden; 01-03-2007, 04:13 AM.

        Comment


          #5
          Garde!

          Gentlemen,

          Thank you for your quick replies!

          I noted that the one sold was sold as a paperweight.

          There are two major and some small differences between the shield below and the shield I photographed in Moscow. On the Moscow version it says "des Schwarzen Korps" but on the below shield it clearly says "der Schwarzen Garde". Then there are small differences in the design of some details - things that don******180;t stand out immediately but after a while you see them. I find it absolutely amazing that there seems to be two varaitions for something so seemingly trivial as a Wintertag of a regional SS-group. Why two versions? Any ideas

          Also, the Moscow shield has no rivets. Instead it has holes where the rivets are, and it is through these holes that it has been attached to the old cloth.

          Do you have any idea what this particular Wintertag in K******246;nigsberg was all about and if it was a reoccuring thing in the Allgemeine-SS? I have never heard the expression in SS activities before.

          Sincerely,

          LG

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Lars Gyllenhaal View Post
            Gentlemen,

            Why two versions? Any ideas

            One genuine and one repro?
            Or one a 'prototype'?

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Lars Gyllenhaal View Post


              Do you have any idea what this particular Wintertag in K******246;nigsberg was all about and if it was a reoccuring thing in the Allgemeine-SS?
              The Allgemeine-SS was a very fragmented organisation and usually only the smaller local groups (Stuerme) met on a regular basis.

              Once a year, each Oberabschnitt had a 'Group Meeting' where all the officers from the various Abschnitte, Standarten, Sturmbaenne etc. within the Oberabschnitt got together. I think your 'Wintertag' would have been one of these meetings.

              Comment


                #8
                I saw pictures of Lars' example. It is pretty much the same design but as he has stated the wording is different. IE the use of Korps vs Garde....this is very interesting. I do not know why this was done but I can speculate that as we all know the Korps wording eventually caught on so maybe the wording was changed. I do however feel that the paper-weight versions are probably copies as you can see the same casting flaws in the one that Robin posted pix of and the one that I posted a picture of.

                Kindest Regards,

                John

                Comment


                  #9
                  shield

                  I am very grateful for the feedback from Robin and John,

                  Due to it I now lean towards thinking that the shield I photographed may have been mounted on a wall or as a paperweight and was then modified at some stage (perhaps in the 1980s!) to become an arm shield.

                  More feedback is very welcome - especially tips on where to find prewar or WWII-photos showing the shield!

                  Cheers,

                  Lars

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I can get a nice one of these kind, what do you think about it?

                    Does some more facts came out since 2007?
                    Attached Files

                    Comment


                      #11
                      2
                      Attached Files

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                        #12
                        meht i like the look on your shild,

                        Comment


                          #13
                          only one shield?

                          No noubt looks like the shield from Königsberg/Kaliningrad that I photographed in Moscow in 1991.

                          Did this shield too emerge from the USSR/Russia?

                          Has anyone ever seen any more shields of this size and shape but with other motifs?

                          Cheers,

                          L

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I haven´t noticed it before but the one from member "meht" looks good to me as well.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Shields

                              I have never seen these before. I like them however

                              Comment

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