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**Fritz** · 12-07-2006, 07:24 AM

Originally posted by John M. Donovan View Post

Hi Fritz -

Ah, thank you for correcting me, I meant to write Buchenwald not Belsen. Yes, the 'Bitch of Buchenwald' is indeed infamous...When I was in the archive at the Wiesenthal center there was a photo that we used for several projects that I believe was taken by a US photographer that showed a table with the lamp and various pieces of tatooed skin that had been cutoff inmates. That lampshade was supposed to have been made out of human skin and if I remember correctly there was an inmate who testified to this at one of the postwar trials.

Best,
John

Hi John,
I believe here is the picture you are reffering to and some more information as well.

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Dachau.../IlseKoch.html

And another:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/040604.html

I hope we are not moving to far from the original topic of the thread...

Cheers

Fritz

**InfanterieSammler** · 12-07-2006, 07:36 AM

Hi Fritz -

Yes, that is indeed the photo...You can see the tatooed skin, the shrunken heads, and the lamp...The US troops that liberated the camp were told that it was made from human skin. Since then it appears that there has been no further information to prove/disprove the claim. It could have been animal skin, or it could be as claimed. There was testimony at one of the trials of a lampshade with tatooed skin, the obvious implication being that it could only be human skin.

For all these morbid reasons and more, I choose not to continue study in the Holocaust field. It is not easy to look at this type of thing and be surrounded by it day in and day out. While the Waffen-SS was part of the SS and the legacy that goes along with it, at least one can find some good virtue of man like comradeship, courage, sacrifice.

Best, John

**Tommaso** · 12-07-2006, 08:39 AM

Hi John,

If I understand well you was an intern researcher at the Simon Wiesentahl centre in Los Angeles?
I would like to ask you one thing, nothing to do with this thread.
Dont want to be rude, just curious: If you think the SS were the one of the most violent and barbaric organization ever how you can put an atavar like that?
I mean if you belive these things has happened how you can "feel good" with german stuff in your hands?
I cant understand honestly.

PS-The british soldiers at auschwitz shown some sections of humans heads, of course they were real but since as we have just seen about the shrunken heads, how you can say for sure that they have been taken from the inmates oand not from an hospital or something like that as for the heads has happened?

Cheers
T

**Vinland** · 12-07-2006, 09:41 AM

Gents:

Sorry to add to any of this thread that takes it off topic, but (and i'm looking for the refernces here) the shrunken head was determined to be of Asian origin, I also talked to a colleague at work here who has been trying to collect 'shrunken heads' - believe me, he says it's a small market as very few of these actually ever hit the market, as only three tribes ever do this, apparently two in the fiji area and one in south america. anyways, going back to this, i understood from what I read that the shrunken heads in question were not from or as a result of, any whacky experiments at the camp, but came from elsewhere.

**InfanterieSammler** · 12-07-2006, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by Drapeau Noir View Post

Hi John,
If I understand well you was an intern researcher at the Simon Wiesentahl centre in Los Angeles?
I would like to ask you one thing, nothing to do with this thread.
Dont want to be rude, just curious: If you think the SS were the one of the most violent and barbaric organization ever how you can put an atavar like that?
I mean if you belive these things has happened how you can "feel good" with german stuff in your hands?
I cant understand honestly.Cheers T

Hi -

Yes, I worked at the Wiesenthal center as an intern for 3 months. It was a tremendous experience, but as I said one that confirmed for me there were other areas that of WW II that I would rather study.

Regarding SS collecting, we all have our own reasons. I have stayed away from the area's that I am most 'uncomfortable' with like the SD, Gestapo, KZ, etc. I do collect W-SS mainly because of my interest in the history and personalities of this formation. I believe that in war, there are some worthwhile or redeeming qualities that can be found like comradeship, courage, and sacrifice.

Regarding my avatar, this is not some symbol of hate or destruction, etc. This is a man -a man whom I've spent years researching. Werner Poetschke was one of the most tenacious and decorated soldiers in the entire W-SS. I have certain respect for him as a brave and capable leader, however just like the organization he served he was not without flaw.

Best,
John

**bnz. 42** · 12-07-2006, 03:38 PM

Can anyone translate this paper?

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buchenwald-doc.jpg (113.9 KB, 244 views)

**Fritz** · 12-07-2006, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by bnz. 42 View Post

Can anyone translate this paper?

It says that from "now" on it is forbidden to produce anymore "gift articles" (like shrunken heads etc.).

And that the pathology (right word?) is not allowed to give medical treatment to prisoners as a pathology is not responsible for that (this should obviously be left up to the medical department / camp hospital).

This order has to be published to the prisoners working in the pathology also.

This is what it says....

On the authenticy of the document I can't comment naturally. The only thing I notice is that the letter "ß" has been replaced by ss (double s like in dass, not the SS like in Waffen-SS)...this was rather unusual back then. I really don't know why this was done, defect key writer?....it is no proof for a fake but still unusual.

Cheers

Fritz

**Bob Hritz** · 12-07-2006, 04:55 PM

HMMMM, looks like somebody was busy with their SS key typewriter. Interesting that no file stamps are on this alledged 'document'.

Bob Hritz

**dog soldier** · 12-07-2006, 05:11 PM

Hi ,i visited Auschwitz in September and saw the bundles of hair and how it had been manufactured into cloth.When the camp fell 7 tons of human hair was recovered found in bails, Now if it was cut of to stop the spread of diseases and for hygene purposes why keep it why not burn it , you cant deny they didnt have the resources to burn it and if they were shaved for hygene why cut the hair from people who had just be gassed and whose bodies were being burnt, how would that stop the spread disease,tests carried out after the war showed that the hair was human and some elements of it contained poison used to gas the inmates.The Auschwitz Birkenau state museum book is a very good book for reference it shows the documentation and photos , i suggest you try and get a copy, another good book is i was Dr Mengeles assistant , he also talk about the shaving of prisoners heads after being gassed and the removale of teeth.

**Fritz** · 12-07-2006, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by dog soldier View Post

Hi ,i visited Auschwitz in September and saw the bundles of hair and how it had been manufactured into cloth.When the camp fell 7 tons of human hair was recovered found in bails, Now if it was cut of to stop the spread of diseases and for hygene purposes why keep it why not burn it , you cant deny they didnt have the resources to burn it and if they were shaved for hygene why cut the hair from people who had just be gassed and whose bodies were being burnt, how would that stop the spread disease,tests carried out after the war showed that the hair was human and some elements of it contained poison used to gas the inmates.The Auschwitz Birkenau state museum book is a very good book for reference it shows the documentation and photos , i suggest you try and get a copy, another good book is i was Dr Mengeles assistant , he also talk about the shaving of prisoners heads after being gassed and the removale of teeth.

From what I know they have "stored" many things like shoes, eye glasses etc.. The original question was if human hair was used to make uniforms.

I still doubt that. If they have filled pillows with human hair that were used by prisoners etc. is another question.

Let me make very clear here that IMO they had no right to put anybody except of "true criminals" in such camps, so that is not the question at all....at least not with me.

The question here is if human hair was used to produce uniforms.

Cheers

Fritz

**dog soldier** · 12-07-2006, 06:18 PM

I might be wrong but im sure at the museum at Aushwitz they said the material was too ruff in texture to be used as clothing so i dont think it was, im sure it was used as filling for matresses and sack material.i hope this helps the question

**Tommaso** · 12-08-2006, 06:12 AM

Hi John,

Thanks for your reply.
Actually I do not see any difference between Gestapo, KZ, SD, SS, Waffen SS soldiers, I see just the difference between man and man, some men are good some are bad, their "membership card" doesnt mean anything to me.
I think there were evil men in the National Socialism as much as they were in the Soviet Communism or in Pinochet Chile or whateverelse.
Same thing for the good men.
This the reason why I dont want to judge a Politic Party or the people related to it just because I would or I would not agree with theirs views.
What I do not like of Wiesenthal Centers (in general of course) is that they point the finger against every german or volunteer who had fought in the Waffen-SS as he had been a sort of "Monster" who deserves to be killed like a dog (You can for example see the indecent Priebke's trial in italy).
I dont like that way, I dont like to judge ideologies or parties, I prefer to judge the men: if they are guilty they are guilty because of them, because they are criminals, because they are "dogs" not because they are National Socialists or Communists.
But this is just my point of view.

Thanks anyway.
Cheers

**Jeff V** · 12-09-2006, 12:31 AM

Here are some pictures of the hair and cloth roll from Auschwitz. The pictures are from the book "Auschwitz- A History in Photographs" by the Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum.
jeff

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IMG_2049.JPG (118.0 KB, 162 views)

**Jeff V** · 12-09-2006, 12:31 AM

2

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IMG_2050.JPG (73.2 KB, 163 views)

**Jeff V** · 12-09-2006, 12:32 AM

3

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IMG_2051.JPG (84.2 KB, 200 views)

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