Is this a sleeve eagle?

[Gary Wood]

group shot,

[andya]

Many thanks for all the replies and the great pictures. This leaves me in a bit of a quandry as I intend to sell all the cloth items I have and this is to go. The problem is is it to go into the Bazaar.As it stands, I think this might have to be the case as I do not want to sell something iffy.
cheers
andy

[DaveJ]

Not that is helps this discussion, but here is one I own.

[SJP]

Here is a field grey version I have. I also believe these to be Bahnschutzpolzei or some other obscure prewar para-military organization.
Although Mollo and Bender do say this be SSVT they don't support the claim w/ any clear period photo's.There are decent photo's of this style w/ the head facing right. Its possible this style was used and prehaps someone has a clear photo?-----------------------------------------
but why would this be adopted when right facing was already in use as the chosen style?
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Cheers Steve

[SJP]

This IMO is the 1st pattern sleeve eagle.The type that is attributed as the 1st pattern I would look at its use like the Heer eagle, convenient and or expedient. Cheers Steve
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[jimt]

eagle

This IMO is the 1st pattern sleeve.The type that is attributed as the 1st pattern I would look at its use like the Heer eagle, convenient and or expedient. Cheers Steve
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Steve , does the eagles head face to the right in your photo ?
jim

[SJP]

Steve , does the eagles head face to the right in your photo ?
jim

Jim, Yes,the wing style is also different.
_____________________________________
Cheers Steve

[jimt]

eagle

Steve,
The picture you have posted seems to verify what I have long thought, it would seem that the reference books are in error, the picture you have posted looks like the type of eagle that is in fact the first SS pattern eagle , and the first eagle posted as you have stated to me probably a Baunshutzpolice type eagle. When Mike Beaver was alive he also mentioned to me his reservations about the eagles head faced left being a SS pattern? Well certainly a interesting post , guess this SS cloth collecting is a never ending learning curve. The right headed eagle is certainly
"one rare bird" I hope one of the Forum members sends me one for Christmas" I'll pay the postage.
jimtoncar

[derek]

Jim,
I too had a long correspondance with Mike about these eagles. I shared this close-up picture with him of Dietrich's eagle that appeared to show the eagle's head pointing to the right. I will search out the other pictures I sent him of these eagles.
Derek

[derek]

Here's another I sent him. Although it tells us precious little about the eagle it does afford a view of the rare gothic Adolf Hitler cufftitle.
Derek

[SJP]

Here is the intended use of the sleeve eagle in question.Although the scan is less than clear the original shows the eagles head left facing on this Bahnschutz Officer.
The original Mollo photo Gary scanned also shows (IMO) the correct eagle
Nice photo's Derek
__________________________________________________ __________
Cheers Steve

[jimt]

eagles

On page 606 of Michael Beavers book " Uniforms of the SS" there is a very clear picture of this eagle on a white mess dress tunic, in bullion weave.
Derek , would it be possible to see the complete picture showing the gothic pattern "Adolf hitler " cufftitle ? Quite rare to see.
Steve, the Baunschutz photo that you posted really seems to make a very strong case for what the intent and use of this eagle was for. Just some really great reference material .
jim

[derek]

Here you go Jim,
It is from Hitler's visit to the LAH barracks at Christmas 1935.
Derek

[Robert H]

For my opinion all original so called 1.pattern early SS pattern sleeve eagles show over their left shoulder (from the eagles view). Compare this to period photos we know about (example from the Beaver book p.80. p.83 (different shape) etc. Why is it then so very hard to find the VT-style eagles? There is something odd, also the backing color from this 1.pattern eagles in green don't make them to SS eagles for my view. And you can find also green ones with a thicker backing way more often then the so called VT style eagles.

[M. A. Miller]

SS Eagle

Andy,
Your eagle is identical to an eagle I was going to sell about a year ago to one of the responders here. It was deemed a FAKE. I believe yours appears . like mine, being embroidered on 2 plys of differant material. It is posted here.
Regards, Mitch