Ss Smock Opinion

[CWP]

I agree that it is an interesting debate. I think there is a chance these are real but wouldn't want to own something so controversial.

[Lorenz]

1000% AGREE WITH YOU FRITZ!
ALSO THE CLOTH IS ONLY NORMAL COTTON PRINTED, IT'ISNT DUCK CLOTH WITH HIS PARTICULAR CARACTERISTICS...
ALSO THE ELASTIC IS MODERN NOT THE CLASSIC OLD RAYON COVERED ELASTIC...
BY LORENZ

Carlo,
as you can see from the many posts it is so that some people like these smocks ( that means they believe them to be period ) and others ( like me ) who don't like them ( that means they believe them to be reproductions ).

There was a very interesting thread going on about these a while back. Several points of concern were expressed there and here again. Along with all these concerns let me add that :

- I "don't like" the HBT material for the pockets
- I have never seen a Zeltbahn, Helmet Cover, Cap or Combination in this pink pattern

Things like that the fabric isn't right and that they were everywhere over night somewhen in the 80s have been mentioned here before.

But again there are those that like these smocks and believe them to be period ...that is ok naturally!!


Cheers

Fritz

[Luca Ongaro]

Ciao Solo,

I like your smock.
It is nice and very well done.I don´t belive that copies are so such accurated...
It is just an opinion.

Cordiali Saluti,

Ciano

Sorry but I am not agree.
Carlo try to put water on it and see the effects... from these pictures material seems cotton and not duck cloth as Lorenz told you.
Luca

[solo]

Sorry but I am not agree.
Carlo try to put water on it and see the effects... from these pictures material seems cotton and not duck cloth as Lorenz told you.
Luca

What would be the effects?
Ciao

[Greg Domian]

I will chime in and say I believe they are the real deal. And has been stated there are two camps of though on these. no in betweens. You either believe or don't. Most of the detailed arguments can be found if you search the forum. I also believe a period photo showed up in one of the LAH books that shows this smock in wear. I just can't say which book.

Greg

Oh, And my smock when water is poured over it, runs like a river.

[Josef Hahne]

Kameraden,

I've heard most of the arguments on the "brick red" tarnhemd (smocks) and I am of the opinion that I would not want one in my colection either. I'll back up my opinion with a reason.

It's common knowledge that tarnhemd were made out of the same material as the zeltbahn. I have never seen an Oak zelt with the brick red coloration. That is not how the material reacts to age or a by product of aging. If this type was indeed a unique coloration varient then where are the brick red zeltbahns, field caps, and tarnhelmuberzeugs?
Sepp

[CIANO]

Hi everybody,

I know that is a controverse thread but in the Book "Waffen SS UNIFORMS AND EQUIPMENTS" (I have the French version) by the authors Andrew Steven and Peter Amodio, they make reference of this type of "pink smock"....

just a theory:
Could be that the Germans had produced this kind of smocks at the end of 44/begining 45, and due their problems of logistic/transports they had no time, or unable to distribute them...

Also the coulor could be inspirated in the Italian Camouflage as they used this type of colour"brick".


Please see the photos in the link: photos of "pink smock" from the book.

http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/8294/dsc01962sr4.jpg
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/93/dsc01960pc5.jpg
http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/6356/dsc01961xg7.jpg

example of Italian Cammo coulors seen by 1944/1945 (also used by the German troops):

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/4...00010i4bz0.jpg

regards

Ciano

[Lucky Duck]

That Amodio book is full of garbage and nearly worthless as a serious collector reference.

Ray

[Fritz]

Hi everybody,

I know that is a controverse thread but in the Book "Waffen SS UNIFORMS AND EQUIPMENTS" (I have the French version) by the authors Andrew Steven and Peter Amodio, they make reference of this type of "pink smock"....

just a theory:
Could be that the Germans had produced this kind of smocks at the end of 44/begining 45, and due their problems of logistic/transports they had no time, or unable to distribute them...

Also the coulor could be inspirated in the Italian Camouflage as they used this type of colour"brick".


Please see the photos in the link: photos of "pink smock" from the book.

http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/8294/dsc01962sr4.jpg
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/93/dsc01960pc5.jpg
http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/6356/dsc01961xg7.jpg

example of Italian Cammo coulors seen by 1944/1945 (also used by the German troops):

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/4...00010i4bz0.jpg

regards

Ciano

Ciano,
the book you are reffering to has many reproductions in it and so, IMO, the smock is one of these reproductions.

Smocks weren't made that late in the war. They were replaced by the four pocket camouflage uniforms at this stage. The only items made of cotton duck materials so late in the war were helmet covers and zeltbahnen.

As said earlier....there is a camp of the "believers" and one of the "none believers". If you like it I would recommend you to have one as they are quite cheap when compaired to known originals. You must be happy with it in the end and not anybody else.

Cheers

Fritz

[CIANO]

Dear All,

Ok guys,You have won.

I am now convinced!... that is post war!

regards

Ciano

[Glenn McInnes]

- I "don't like" the HBT material for the pockets


Fritz

I don't like the HBT either in fact I have seen similar used in the linings of some post war manufactured hats. I think it is an attempt to copy it.

I think some believe these pink smocks are post war Czech manufacture.

Some on the other hand as mentioned think that they "just might" be real.

I don't collect them (I have seen a few) but certainly would not own one.You would be forever 2nd guessing it.



Glenn

[90th Light]

Too many people are stating things here like they are certain and tested.

The point is with these smocks, no-one is sure. The elastic, the cotton, the colour, the pockets. There are things people like and things others hate. What we have here is alot of qualitative theory but no quantative testing of the theory.

For example, we need to pull several original SS Smocks to pieces and check the elastic and the variations of elastic found in these smocks. Now I can understand why that test has not occured but I know some people have pull the elastic out of the Pink smocks so where are the pictures ? Continuing on this approach we could compare the water absorption/resistant property of the Pink Smock with the water a/r property of late war Zelts. In my experience some late Zelts can be challenged on this also.

Now I am not saying I think the "Pink Smock" is original but I do not think they are wrong . In my book I think they have every chance but to date the un-questionable proof has not emerged and there are some real mysteries with this one like no Zelts, covers or caps ? Also those who do like these smocks make some very good points why things do not seem right.

I got mine for about US$150 several years ago and think it is worth having one at that price. I have certainly had more than US$150 of speculation out of it. They are a fun thing to put beside a known original and see how close they got it.

Couple of years ago I got offered another for about US$400 but said no thanks, one of those is enough for any-one, Chris

[Ron P]

I owned one and am convinced they are no good. I must have seen about 5 over the years and they all had a hole in the corner of a pocket and strange unintelligable markings stamped on one of the pockets. One story is they where made in Austria in the 80's

[Glenn McInnes]

In my book I think they have every chance but to date the un-questionable proof has not emerged Chris

I wouldn't hold my breath,I doubt that it will ever happen.



Glenn

[Lucky Duck]

I feel the same way about the pink smocks, as Sam thought about green eggs and ham. I do not like them.

One feature that possibly connects them to other high-end reproductions is the HBT pocket lining. Its not original HBT, but same or similar to the material used on known fake HBT panzer wrappers and pants.

I'm not a chemist, but I'd bet the inaccurate reddish colors are due to modern synthetic dyes used in the printing process, unable to match the subtle muted tones of the original.

Sincerely,
Ray