My Panzer tunic

[TonyS]

What is a fair price? I have read a plain SS wrap is approx $18k plus another $5k for insignia. $23K - $25K is what I'm hearing, The asking price now has come down to $30K bottom line. Is that recommended here? I only buy SS from Bill to be sure I am getting solid pieces. I would jump on it for $25K, $30K is putting me off.

You can always ask for a discount....as the saying goes "if you never ask you'll never get"

But if even Bill Shea admits most pieces are monkeyed with, and in the amended description on this wrap he says the added insignia is virtually undetectable, there's a lesson there for everyone collecting tunics.

Banned member BNZ showed his expertly restored wraps early in this thread and if I recall said he couldn't care less about them being restored. I wonder if he'll be the type who will kindly disclose to a buyer about the restoration and reduce the price accordingly??

[TonyS]

Here are close ups of BNZ's restored insignia on one wrap.

[BrianK]

I don't think the issue here is buying from Bill, or that any dealer is holding a gun to a buyer's head, or that buying rare pieces are a good investment. The issue was that there was no mention in the original listing that it was repaired/re-applied insignia post-war. Bill has corrected once he found out from the consignor, but this also would impact the asking price, or at least it should, imo. At the end of the day though, you are right it is a rare piece, which if priced accordingly should increase in value over the years. That is provided that all young collectors (the next generation, which we all will be relying on if looking to sell at some point) are not driven away from the hobby by some crooked dealers. It's the ones that are trying to peddle 'untouched' uniforms, etc., knowing full-well they are not, for ridiculous prices. IMO, they are ruining the hobby and run the risk, long-term, of driving a new generation away from collecting. Then we can talk about investments and how they've plummeted because there are no buyers.

Good advice.

[John Pic]

Interesting that the description of the jacket does not include or reflect that it is restored? Oakleaf has just taken, again, huge flak because of a restored tunic, which was not described as such. Same standards should apply to all dealers. IMO. J

At least Bill Shea has the integrity to come on this forum and address it himself unlike a few others.

Also "Restored" to original configuration is different than someone making up an entirely new tunic from a shell of shadows and ghosts or a from a heer tunic...lets be clear about that. I would not pay top dollar for a rebadged shell or a humped up heer with SS insignias.

[Rob83]

I have also done a lot of business with Bill. If there is one thing to be said about him, he is always willing to work with any customer that he has a good history with.
As for the price on this tunic, well if that is indeed his asking price then I can assure you it was no cheap acquisition for him. In the end this is a top notch piece for the die hard SS collector. As far as investment, there may not be a lot of room to turn around for a profit.

All in all a very nice and just as rare item hands down. I would be lying if I said I didn't want it even with the knowledge that it had been partially restored.

[Scott A. Hess]

You can always ask for a discount....as the saying goes "if you never ask you'll never get"

But if even Bill Shea admits most pieces are monkeyed with, and in the amended description on this wrap he says the added insignia is virtually undetectable, there's a lesson there for everyone collecting tunics.

Banned member BNZ showed his expertly restored wraps early in this thread and if I recall said he couldn't care less about them being restored. I wonder if he'll be the type who will kindly disclose to a buyer about the restoration and reduce the price accordingly??

Hello Tony, I agree that the pictures you have posted re BNZ's tunic show nice work, however, and I mean no disrespect please, I see nothing really very "expert" in the restoration of the tunic. Not that it is not done well, however, true expertise would for me be going into a top notch Tailor shop and having them hand tailor a suit for you, that takes real honest to goodness talent, taking the appropriate measurements, and tailoring the tunic to fit your body just so. Unfortunately, anyone with some rudimentary knowledge of sewing can do the type of work shown in the insignia application of BNZ's wrapper, the affixing of the cufftitle requires very little skill that can not be learned with practice, if its hand sewin, a simple blind stitch is what was used, Affixing the collar tabs if done on a machine is a simple straight stitch run on a simple machine. The only part that is more challenging is the eagle, if it was not original to the tunic, still, the key there is in properly placing the eagle in the correct position horizontally with the sleeve liine, and at the right height from the shoulder seam, these numbers in cm are known. The stitch is a simple zig zag stitch also done on any of todays modern machines, and you dont need a high end one, 150 or so would do, you dial in the width of the W you wish to achieve, and then must take care to properly affix while the sleeve is attached to the jacket, as they in production were sewn on obviously first and I suspect before the seam of the arm was closed.
Have I done any of this? No, but I've seen it done with period thread. I merely point out that many people believe it takes true "talent" to do this work, and thus, they think that because of this, one would be morfe likely to detect reapplication of insignia, in the false believe that only few know and practice this skill. Any woman/man who took home economics in high school, or was taught by their mother how to sew could do this work in less than an hour, even badge loops are still done the old fashioned way, not much has changed when it comes to sewing in the last 100 or so years, discounting surgers and the like. I imagine if you took such a jacket to a swansons cleaners with proper thread they could also perform the work just as well as long as you explained to them exactly what you want. This is insignia application, and in reality not tunic restoration in terms of bring a damaged item back to life using real tailoring skills.

[TonyS]

Hello Tony, I agree that the pictures you have posted re BNZ's tunic show nice work, however, and I mean no disrespect please, I see nothing really very "expert" in the restoration of the tunic.

Ha ha - yes you're right. I should have thought before I typed. Nothing really expert there that a competent amateur couldn't do with some practice. And it looks like quite a few are doing it.

[Ian Hulley]

Ha ha - yes you're right. I should have thought before I typed. Nothing really expert there that a competent amateur couldn't do with some practice. And it looks like quite a few are doing it.

Very good Tony

[John Pic]

and not only that they have convinced the community to still pay the higher prices even for the "restored" or "rebadged" items. This truly is an addiction.

[voltageman7]

Bought it, $30K. Bill would not budge off that price!

[wolfslair44]

Bought it, $30K. Bill would not budge off that price!

That's a lot of coin, but even restored they are super rare, so enjoy it. Congrats!

[BrianK]

I have never been able to understand what problem is with restored tunics - why collectors do not like them. SS visor caps with missing or fake eagles or TKs are restored with real ones, and the restorers are congratulated. I understand why an untouched tunic would be worth much more, but why go through the torment of trying to find one, when they are 1 in 1,000?

[Mark Edward C]

Brian, I think its personal and you have to have 3- 4 times the money to invest. Yes, so unrestored tunics are ALOT more for sure....

[voltageman7]

Thx, my wife is not happy. Bill put in writing he would buy it back at anytime for 80% of the original purchase price, can't go wrong there. Also if the rune tab and eagle were done well enough to fool Bill, it must be pretty good. I am having a glass case built for it.

[Mike Swan]

I wonder if these three Das Reich beauties made it back safely and are waiting to be discovered by the vets' relatives one day?

Mike