Q/A Piped General's Trousers Colour?

[Vinland]

Gents:

Any idea what colour a piped SS General's trousers might be? I would assume Red for Stabs, but S/Boards are dove grey underneath.

Anyone?

Regards

Drew

[GFM]

I think there were some who probably wore the thin gray piping down the seam, if I recall correctly. But yeah, the broad lampassen has yet to be documented by period photos with the exception of Wunnenburg. There are multiple pictures of Wunnenburg in those breeches and the piping color seems to vary with the pictures, so who knows if it was white or gray (or he may have had more than one pair of breeches like that). I'd have to go with Bob's guess that they were more than likely white, based on the number of W-SS Generals that had white underlay, as Bob noted.

[Bock]

Piped General`s Trousers.

Hello.

About what types and colours which was in the Reithosen and the Gerade hosen of the Waffen-SS and the Allgemeine-SS i would like to bring my meanings about this.
I have seen about three complete Allgemeine-SS General uniforms and also been the owner of a complete Allgemeine-SS general`s uniform and a Waffen-SS General`s uniform.
The three Allgemeine-SS uniforms all had a thin white stripe on each leg.
The Waffen-SS uniform Reithose had two wide and one thin stripe.
Also I think that one periode colour foto of Sepp Dietrich from the French Coast
seems to show two wide and one thin stripe in his Reithosen/Breeches.
Also a foto of Fegelein in his wedding wearing his Gerade hose seems to show two wide and one thin stripe....................?!
Also the Uniform-regulations of the Waffen-SS allowed the use of two wide and one thin grey-coloured stripes in uniform-trousers, BUT many Waffen-SS Generals did not wear these JUST out of old principes as they did not belong to the first Uniform-regulations back int the start of the SS-area as just Allgemeine-SS existed.
Also we have to remember that SS-troops did not have their own uniform in the start but most of all used Wehrmacht-uniform and also had a lot of "non-regulations uniforms" up to the end of the WW2..............
Sepp Dietrich also weared Arm-eagle, armstripe and so on............. in "GOLD", all these was "out of uniform-regulations".

All the best.

[Bock]

Piped General`s Trousers.

Hello again.

Regarding the questions from Bobwirtz about showing fotos of the Jacket/Rock
of my Waffen-SS General uniform this will not be done, just because of that we DO NOT discuss the Jacket/Rock that I used to own, but the types of General`s trousers/Breeches weared by Allgemeine/Waffen-SS Generals.

Secondly Bobwirtz will are able to find the fotos himself because they are all well-known ones to be found in GOOGLE world wide, no problem at all...............

To the question about the Waffen-SS Regulations this was told me by a former
family-member of a wellknown Allgemeine-SS Obersturmbannführer living in
earlier DDR.

Also, would Bobwirtz tell me which Regulations consists the text that says that the Waffen-SS Generals was not allowed to wear these stripes or where in the
Regulations you can read which types of stripes the Generals should wear to live up to the Regulations.............................?!
At last also pse tell me where in the Regulations we are able to find the text which inform about why Sepp Dietrich was allowed to wear "GOLD" insignia all over his uniforms?!

All best.

[Bobwirtz]

...

[Bob Coleman]

Bob-
I see not much has changed on the SS Forum. A new member who claims to have information and then refuses to share it. Bock, if you have photographic evidence, enlighten all of us. Telling us to find it ourselves is a pretty sorry reply for anyone who is a scholar of the period.
In my opinion,the standard for trousers would be a thin gray stripe emulating the trousers worn with the black uniform. THe breeches would have wide gray stripes with centered gray piping.

[Gary Wood]

I would also Like to see photo's as well
cheers
gary

[Bock]

General`s trousers.

Hello to you.

Yesterday Bobwirtz asked for more opinions regarding the questions from Drew and he got my opinions.

About that I am a new member to this thread doesn`t mean that I do not have any "knowhow", so I would think and believe that all opinions from all members of this thread have their rights!?

Yes, I really do think that (with my own eyes) it seems that the two period-fotos possibly have trousers with two wide and one thin stripe(s) in the legs.........,
I HAVE not SAID that this is the 100% sure BUT I do believe to see that and again this belongs to the opinions WHICH Bobwirtz is asking for?!

If this FORUM doesn`t have room for all peoples meanings out of their interests and personal opinions why do you ask for other peoples meanings?

We all have to remember that all of us ones started collecting and need time to be "EXPERTS".

About to find the fotos yourselves, Yes that would be easy why you all probably have seen these many times in google.
I have never claimed anything just tried to tell what I have been told and learned during my 30 years of experience and collecting.

Is it so that what the three of you state should be other collectors meanings in this forum or are all of us able to write our opinions without beeing attacked, because to me it seems that "suddenly" three collectors answered my last thread talking just the same way.........................................?

Is it so that fotos from WW2 is the only documentation on what was correct regarding what belonged to all forms of regulations in the Third Reich?
Also I have not got your answers stating in which regulations I will find the text which states the use of GOLD in the insignias of "SEPP"?
In a period foto in google he also wears an army eagle in his cap late in the war (because his is Oberstgruppenführer).
Do you think that the germans had uniform regulations during WW2?
When germans tell me that they mean to be sure of that the Waffen-SS Generals weared three grey stripes in the trousers/breeches why shouldn`t people believe in this?
My last question to you is to show me the correct documentation that says,
" three grey stripes in the trousers are not legal" and " this is the regulations for which stripes is allowed in General`s trousers"..................?
I would be very happy to learn of what you guys have of expertise in this because you have been collecting for a much longer time than me.

Thanks in advance.

All the best to you.

Bock.

[Ernst-H]

Well you would think that Waffen-SS generals would have the two wide stripes with the single thin stripe in between - all in light-gray; however, there is no era photographic evidence of this except for one: police general Wunnenberg, commander of the SS-Polizei-Division. And it's never been properly determined the exact color of the stripes, some people indicating they could have been white, which isn't so far fetched as there were some SS generals with white lapels on their greatcoats and shoulder board underlays. Not even Sepp Dietrich, who was a prima dona in the ways of clothing fashion did not wear these broad trouser stripes and neither did Himmler. Now every reproduction or fake SS general's uniform that I have ever come across all have those wide light-gray stripes. So somebody really believes in them. So I guess the answer to your question is NO TROUSER STRIPES for SS generals.Let's hear other opinions. Bob

Collecting is a very tough business as nobody will be able to explain with 100% certainty that anything was this way or the other. Most of us (if not all) were not there and it has been over 60 years ago. Times have changed, attitude towards regulations has changed our way of thinking has changed.

Original regulations are quite hard to find. Most collectors tend to rely on modern reference works. But... not one modern reference work available is 100% right on all things.

So how can we prove........or disprove.......anything from ever have happened.

> I believe that prooving something did not happen is 100% impossible. Even if you would happen to have all (and my mean ALL) period regulations, and if you would study all (and my mean ALL) period photographs that exist in the world you still would not have seen all the ] things that were done during the time contrary to regulation.

> To prove with certainty that something DID happen however is much more easy. If you find a piece of regulation in which something is described you can quite safely say that it did (allthough maybe only for a short time) happen.
If you find (if only a single) a period photograph showing a certain item to be worn on uniforms you are 100% certain that it DID happen.


So to get back to case at hand:
It has been concluded that there are at least a few photographs of General Wuennenberg wearing the wide stripes at his generals trousers.
This is 100% proof that it happened.

It has been argued that maybe these stripes are not grey but white but no proof has been given to substantiate these claims. When is said that many generals had white greatcoatlapels and white backing to the shoulderboards.....what is this based upon? On period photographs maybe? The problem however with that is that in a B&W period photograph everything is a tone of grey and thus color difference between grey and white cannot be judged.

Other than that I have no meaning about the subject of this thread. I collect Polizei and I tend to believe that I know my regulations in that field at least a bit.

Please let us all be carefull saying that other people make unsubstantiated claims as many other statements are also not much more than opinions (I have pointed out some of the statements in the above quote that (In my honoust opinion) are contradictory (underlined) or an opinion (in bold),...rather than fact.
(Bobwritz, I took your posting as an example. Nothing personal meant of course )

[Bock]

Piped General`s Trousers.

Hello to all of you.

First of all I want to thank ERNST for his thread regarding his opinions and so on................, very well-talking collector indeed!

Secondly I registrate that Bobwirtz do not seem to have place in his mind for other "new-member" collectors meanings, JUST stating, again and again that he is gloryfying his own meanings which is no good to collectors that try to take part of the forums, especially to the new-ones without experience(s).

Not all collectors have 30 years of collecting behind them but they all may get it during the years so that they one day will get the same experiences as the allready "bigones", so is life in all parts of the society................

Some months ago, at least two(2) wellknown collectors leaved this forum because some others talked person and not case.......................

Also I am able to read between the lines that Bobwirtz in this his last thread tells me that if I want to be attacked I can go to that well-known forum....., whatever he means, maybe he gives me the chance to leave this forum, what a nice guest from one of the "big" collectors!

Mr. Bobwirtz does not answer my questions at all he just rush on so that others shall think that I am wrong in all parts and to show his "heavy-weight" position in this thread, SORRY to you Mr..................!
I am not allowed to give my meanings to others without beeing "bombed".
Sorry, but I really do not have "hurt feelings".

As earlier told to you collectors there MUST be place for all kind of collectors in all the threads and I am sure that if others meet this kind of conversation and this kind of respect as here from Bobwirtz they do not want to go on taking part of this types of conversations.

SO, MR. BOBWIRTZ, THANKS TO YOU I AM LEAVING THIS THREAD AND WEHRMACHT-AWARDS AND DO NOT WANT TO GO ON WITH MY MEMBERSHIP.
(Which for sure will "make my(your) day" as Mr. Eastwood said many years ago).

Best regards to all collectors,

but just from a "european" collector.

Bock.

[Bob Coleman]

Bob,

You're right... nothing much has changed.

(The other) Bob

Let's hope the door does not hit him on the backside as he exits.

[Bobwirtz]

...

[Bob Coleman]

Bob,

I didn't mean to be malicious about this. In fact I hope that wasn't what showed through. I thought we had established consensus that the only known era photographs of these wide stripes on SS general's trousers were seen on Wunnenberg and nobody else, including Himmler, Dietrich, etc. Now when you come in the door and contest that and state that you've seen "well-known" photographic evidence to the contrary, and have seen regulations, etc. then I want to see them... not be told to go on Google and look for them, to turn the tables and tell me to quote chapter and verse of the regulation against such stripes. He brought a case and I just wanted him to back up what he was saying. If he did, I'd certainly would have been happy to see them. I've seen a ton of era photos and have not encountered any other evidence of SS generals wearing these stripes. These are the kinds of people that drive the "Old Guard", like yourself, away from the forums... having to put up with this kind of interaction.

Bob

Bob-
I saw nothing malicious in anything you asked for. However, seldom does reason prevail on the SS Forum, no matter what site you are on.

[NTZ]

Since this thread went nowhere I figured I would ask a quick question on SS piped trousers. There is a color photo in Arndt’s “Wolfschanze 1940-1945” , pg 89 of an SS General that looks to be wearing piped straight legs (single piping of course). Even thought the photo is in color I still can’t tell if the piping is white or gray. What was the true proper color, I have heard both colors mentioned. From the photo I am leaning torward gray.

[Vinland]

Gentlemen:

Thanks for the responses, well the civilized ones that is

Found this, on another forum, and although I'm loathe to cross post, thought the photo of the piped pants might be useful. I believe you have to be registered to see it.

http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums...907#5703082907