important questions regarding "fake" items...

[SoCalSS]

Hi all. I am a new member to this forum and have been lurking for awhile. I have to ask this question, it seems so obvious to me, but I haven't seen it asked...

... it seems like everyone is so quick to jump on the "it's fake" or it's a "cheap copy" wagon when someone posts a TK or cap eagle.

What I want to know is when, let's say for sake of argument, that a cap TK is "fake" I need to know how these are made. If they're cast from a real one, thereby being fake, wouldn't the copy have the M1/52 or whatever just like the original?

I have seen a long list of "fake" number markings but wonder how the hell these came to be??? Is there someone out there making these from scratch putting fake number markings on them? Wouldn't it be easier to cast a bunch from a real one? Where did the fake designations come from?

If there is a marking that is not genuine, why are there so many?

Please, someone, define how fakes are made. Define how the phony markings became so prevelant if they never existed... why are there not fakes that are truly cheap copies that have real number markings though...

I have a few that I will post for the scrutiny of this board in the next week or so... I am waiting for my new digital camera first.

I have a pair of Panzer TK collar tabs, a Luftwaffe beer glass (not mug), a Luftwaffe cloth eagle and I am waiting for SS cap TK. I also have about 250 coins from 1933-1945. I will be very interested if my things are fakes.

I would love someone to explain why these fakes exist and how they were made. I don't understand why all fakes have real marking numbers...

[Sayle F]

ss cap insignia

I have been collecting these things for many years and I still do not have all the answers you seek. Go though the forum and search for threads about SS cap insignia and you might become a little more enlightened. Good luck

[Lucky Duck]

Fakes are made in a multitude of ways, by a multitude of people, over a period of time that lasted several times longer than the 3rd Reich itself. As a result there are a multitude of fakes, methods, markings.

Regarding your question of bogus markings, its just another method forgers use to camouflage a less-than-perfect copy of a known original. Bottom line, their objective is not accuracy, but separating you from your money.

HTH
Ray

Hi all. I am a new member to this forum and have been lurking for awhile. I have to ask this question, it seems so obvious to me, but I haven't seen it asked...

... it seems like everyone is so quick to jump on the "it's fake" or it's a "cheap copy" wagon when someone posts a TK or cap eagle.

What I want to know is when, let's say for sake of argument, that a cap TK is "fake" I need to know how these are made. If they're cast from a real one, thereby being fake, wouldn't the copy have the M1/52 or whatever just like the original?

I have seen a long list of "fake" number markings but wonder how the hell these came to be??? Is there someone out there making these from scratch putting fake number markings on them? Wouldn't it be easier to cast a bunch from a real one? Where did the fake designations come from?

If there is a marking that is not genuine, why are there so many?

Please, someone, define how fakes are made. Define how the phony markings became so prevelant if they never existed... why are there not fakes that are truly cheap copies that have real number markings though...

I have a few that I will post for the scrutiny of this board in the next week or so... I am waiting for my new digital camera first.

I have a pair of Panzer TK collar tabs, a Luftwaffe beer glass (not mug), a Luftwaffe cloth eagle and I am waiting for SS cap TK. I also have about 250 coins from 1933-1945. I will be very interested if my things are fakes.

I would love someone to explain why these fakes exist and how they were made. I don't understand why all fakes have real marking numbers...

[bwanek1]

... it seems like everyone is so quick to jump on the "it's fake" or it's a "cheap copy" wagon when someone posts a TK or cap eagle.

That's because the vast majority of metal cap insignia out there ARE fake.

What I want to know is when, let's say for sake of argument, that a cap TK is "fake" I need to know how these are made. If they're cast from a real one, thereby being fake, wouldn't the copy have the M1/52 or whatever just like the original?

There are many types of fakes. Some are cast from originals, some are die struck in the same manner as originals (some from dies made to look like originals, some from unique dies), some are cast from other fakes which have been around for decades. Yes, when they don't have originals to copy, they copy older fakes. I have seen second and third generation copies of other fakes. All originals, however, were die-struck. So, if you learn to identify the signs of a casting, that will help narrow your search.

I have seen a long list of "fake" number markings but wonder how the hell these came to be??? Is there someone out there making these from scratch putting fake number markings on them? Wouldn't it be easier to cast a bunch from a real one? Where did the fake designations come from?

It is difficult to make a convincing and accurate copy. Therefore, fakers often choose to make a unique design with markings/numbers which match no original. This eliminates the possibility of comparing with an original to spot the differences.

If there is a marking that is not genuine, why are there so many?

When something which costs pennies to make sells for hundreds of dollars, there is great incentive.

why are there not fakes that are truly cheap copies that have real number markings though

There are plenty of them! Some are VERY good copies.

I have a few that I will post for the scrutiny of this board in the next week or so

Brace yourself.

I am waiting for my new digital camera first.

A cheap flat bed scanner usually works better at capturing close-ups with fine detail than an expensive digital camera.

I would love someone to explain why these fakes exist and how they were made.

That is a topic which could only be adequately covered in a book. However, there is a LOT of information on this topic covered in many very good threads alreado on this forum. I recommend that you make good use of the search function using words like "cast" and "die struck."

[Paul McKee]

It is difficult to make a convincing and accurate copy. Therefore, fakers often choose to make a unique design with markings/numbers which match no original. This eliminates the possibility of comparing with an original to spot the differences.

That is exactly what I was thinking...basically a smokescreen meant to confuse the partly-informed collector to accept a bogus piece as a rare, variant design.

Paul

[SoCalSS]

Now those are well thought answers and very informative. I would have never thought of the scanner idea...

I'll try that and post my stuff on here so you guys who are smarter about this stuff... I am not sure that I'll want to hear the results...

In particular I am curious about the luftwaffe beer glass.

Thanks to all who replied.