Working on restoring a salty tunic that had collar tabs and sleeve eagle but not much sign of a cufftitle. What were the odds of having cufftitles on 43 tunics? Looking through my books it seems to have dropped off quite a bit, which makes sense with the way the war was going. Thoughts?
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No offence steve,
but if there never was a cufftitle on the tunic I don't think adding one is "restoring" the tunic...
It's more like "altering" a 100% original piece IMO...
Even if it would have had traces of a removed cufftitle and you have no idea what cufftitle was on it, I think it's best to keep it like that. If you would sew a random cufftitle (LAH, Totenkopf
) on a stripped tunic, the result wouldn't be a restored tunic but "a-sewn-together" piece. But that my opinion of course...
To me, restoring means bringing a piece back in it's original state as best as possible...
Kind regards,
Gerd VLast edited by willysproject; 06-03-2006, 10:03 AM. -
I agree with Gerd
. Leave off the cuff title, especially if no trace of one is evident. I think most collectors nowadays can live with some replaced insignia in order to afford an original tunic. It has often been said that most of the SS tunics on the open market now are restorations if not outright put-togethers anyway...but don't replace something that never was there in the first place!
PaulLast edited by Paul McKee; 06-04-2006, 04:24 PM.Comment
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Gerd, Not to pick on your post, but some food for thought...How does anyone know what branch piping to use or what rank etc. unless they know exactly where the soldier who wore the tunic served. A stripped M43 with no insignias that has no past known history? How do you restore it without that knowledge?
I agree dont put a cufftitle where there wasnt one. I also agree that most of the worn tunics out there are restored to some degree. Here are a couple observations.
Most of the tunics that have been in older collections in the US have very often had hand sewn cufftitles and Collar tabs. Those out of Europe I have handled all seem to have the same exact style machine stitching on the title and the tabs.Some of the US tunics have machined on tabs but the stitch used is placed differently.Nothing is absolute.But my own experience in that every tunic coming from or through the same source has the same tailoring techniques makes you think.
More food for thought, old German tailoring was considered the best in all of Europe.Even up into the 1990s European tailoring schools had old German tailors teaching the students techniques. Students were not allowed to touch a machine until they mastered the hand stitching techniques.These old tunics are exquisitely tailored better than a custom Italian suit, its an art.Last edited by John Pic; 06-03-2006, 11:11 AM.Comment
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I agree! I think less than half of all soldiers had their cuffs on later in the war. Its actually very nice to see a tunic with no cuff title.
/FelixComment
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Hi John,
Yes, in that case one will have to make a decision. But my comment was mostly on the cufftitle issue.
Kind regards,
Gerd V
Originally posted by John PicComment
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Outstanding
Outstanding feedback and discussion and with all the good advice Im going to do the smart thing and follow it. No cufftitle it is,,,,thanks all.Comment
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Good comments, John. Of course whether or not there was sleeve rank originally on the tunic would give a clue what kind of collar rank would be appropriate. If there is any question, I'd favor the lowest rank that the clues would suggest.Originally posted by John Pic
As far as branch piping, that would only apply to shoulder straps which simply button on and don't require disturbing the textile with sewing...and can easily be changed by a future owner. Again, I'd avoid the exotic and go with something common...infantry perhaps.
And without question, avoid the temptation to add any award loops, etc!
Interesting observations about sewing style from various collector sources, John.
PaulComment
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I wouldn't jump to hasty conclusions here!
An -important- observation, most BeVo cufftitles were made from 1943 onwards!"Wir Deutschen fürchten Gott und sonst nichts auf der Welt " BISMARCKComment
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John brought up a good point above, also what collar tab would have been worn! type of sleeve eagle, yes sometimes you can tell the latter by the eagles out line
There is a fine line between restoring an item and enhancing, i think most collectors look at this as its OK to put back insignia where there were traces of previous insignia, but add something that was not there like a cuff title, ribbons, medal loops and that would be enhancing the item somewhat like finding a worn award badge with the finish worn off and having it re-plated or in some cases changing the plating to a rarer type
cheers
GaryComment
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