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**norge** · 05-24-2006, 05:02 AM

I belive this is a serious dealer and IMO the skull is ok! Best, norge

**Daniele C** · 05-24-2006, 05:09 AM

i dont know.ive never seen this type of skull and he has another same skull in a sidecap that hasnt sold yet
http://www.hannahsreich.co.uk/shop/viewphoto.php?x=2

**Felix** · 05-24-2006, 05:20 AM

That skull is not original!

But this fake has been around for some years now.

//Felix

**Daniele C** · 05-24-2006, 05:27 AM

Thanks Felix for confirmin my doubts.in facts it s the first time i see it and i have to admit it s very well made IMO.

Dan

**johnm50** · 05-24-2006, 08:52 AM

I also have my doubts also about the skull, how old is this type of fake?
Best,
John

**Bax** · 05-24-2006, 02:37 PM

Hi,

I also believe it to be fake. This is a similar skull that I have found on this forum and it is a fake. I do not remeber in which tread so If the original owner mind me posting please let me know and I will remove it.

Rgds
Pål

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**prorege1** · 05-24-2006, 02:50 PM

No good unfortunately .....

**norge** · 05-24-2006, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by Bax

Hi,

I also believe it to be fake. This is a similar skull that I have found on this forum and it is a fake. I do not remeber in which tread so If the original owner mind me posting please let me know and I will remove it.

Rgds
Pål

Thanks, clearing my eyes and mind... on this one!

Best, norge

**Martin Stiles** · 05-26-2006, 04:17 AM

Hello, Dan, You are right to be concerned about this particular pattern TK, there are extemly good copies available, however they are woven into a polyester base, and will fail a burn test.
The example I have on offer is an original period piece.

Martin Stiles

Hannahsreich.co.uk

**ReichsHeini** · 05-26-2006, 12:16 PM

Martin is of couse 100% correct. Those of you who say this is a copy are wrong in this case.
For those of you that do not own, or have not handled an original bevo TK in this particular pattern, these are seen far less frequently than other patterns. Antone who has collected bevo TKs for any length of time has usually come across originals of this pattern.
However as Martin stated they are abundant copies that are done in polyester.
This pattren is woven differently than the majority of bevo TKs.
It has a loose weave that appears similar to guaze or a guaze bandage.
I have a killer officers sidecap with this same pattern.
It is unfortunate that a common repro has a resembalnce to this one but that is why you need to handle these and the difference is very apparent.

**Felix** · 05-26-2006, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by ReichsHeini

Martin is of couse 100% correct. Those of you who say this is a copy are wrong in this case.
For those of you that do not own, or have not handled an original bevo TK in this particular pattern, these are seen far less frequently than other patterns. Antone who has collected bevo TKs for any length of time has usually come across originals of this pattern.
However as Martin stated they are abundant copies that are done in polyester.
This pattren is woven differently than the majority of bevo TKs.
It has a loose weave that appears similar to guaze or a guaze bandage.
I have a killer officers sidecap with this same pattern.
It is unfortunate that a common repro has a resembalnce to this one but that is why you need to handle these and the difference is very apparent.

With all respect to the above collectors/dealers I still have my doubts about this patter of BeVo skull. Its been discussed before and from what I remember its been deemed as a fake.

The fact that its not made of polyester does not give solid proof. There are for instance BeVo cuff titles that will pass the burn test with no problems.
Why should this copy be perfect on the obverse when other copies are not? It doesnt make sence, does it? The weave pattern on this type of skull is definetely close to what fakes usually have. Or the same as I believe.

However I really like that we go into depth with this issue and I would really like the input from the knowledgeable collectors here. Anyone have had a cap with this TK for more than 30 years or longer in their own collection?

Please proove me wrong since I was the first to claim its a fake! I still regard it as fake untill I get more knowledge. I have studied so many BeVo skulls in real life and on pictures on internet that I can say I know atleast the basics.

Am I totally lost here or correct?

If I have stepped on any toes its for a good reason. Im sorry for this.

/Felix

**ReichsHeini** · 05-26-2006, 01:45 PM

Think what you may, but do not label Mr. Stiles TK as fake unless you really can prove that fact. Martin has built up a really top notch collection of rare SS cloth and I am sure he doea not like the fact that people just label this as fake and don't really know, have not handled it and cannot comment from experience.
You have some additional research to do in order to prove the posted skull is fake though. Just because you have formed this opnion there are many coillecors who own this pattern original. Also you can find period images of this pattern in use by Waffen SS. It is also represented in the Bender magazine (military Advisor) on SS cloth insignia. I also believe there is a similar pattern in the Angolia book, I don't have a copy handy.
I don't have time to do this for you, but you can find some images of original example in various references on headgear.
I have already done my research on this skull pattern some years ago and I know for a fact thet it exists as an original woven TK pattern.
So look at the available matrerials and then come back here on this thread and tell me how it is fake and what you base this evaluation on besides the fact that there are copies in this pattern that exist. There are originals that exist and Martin has already related this.

I own an original cap with one of these as I stated but not for thirty years. Anyways 30 years ago it was 1975, not 1945.
I have never found a convincing copy of a bevo skull - that does not become apparent as a copy when handling it in person. The originals are like cookie cutter pieces and have the same exact detail subject to aging, fading and stretching which may alter the apearance.

**Felix** · 05-26-2006, 02:24 PM

Well mr...

I would just be happy to be prooven wrong! I wait for the input by a few more knowledgeable collectors regarding this topic. If I learn something new Im just glad about it. This is a very sound way to react that more collectors should adopt!

For me the conclusion is far from finished it being an original. Got nothing against the dealer in question and I have even bought a very nice and original bullion sleeve eagle from his site (36 marked). Dont mark my words, but today its really the dealers (or private seller) that have to proove stuff is original and not the customer. Everybody can make mistakes, bott you and me, including dealers.

Question is; Is it original?
I would love to hear what J Toncar, B Hritz and G wood along with what other collectors have to say about this.

Cheers and happy hunting

/Felix

**Martin Stiles** · 05-27-2006, 03:20 AM

Hi, Jerry, PM sent.

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new bevo skull fake?

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