Kz Lager Officer Visor

[Bobwirtz]

...

[Peter v L]

Finally found some pictures of this hat from the time it was sold, not perfect ones, but still better then any posted here.

[Peter v L]

[Peter v L]

[Peter v L]

[Peter v L]

Here you can see the ventilation, intake was through the eyes of the skull

[NTZ]

Peter, what type of air hole grommet it that? I am used to seeing this type in Erel’s. I might also add that the lining and how the edge is cut is not what I am used to seeing in an Erel also.

[Peter v L]

Unfortunatly I have no better picture of the ventilation hole then this, but I have seen two different types of ventilation gromets used.

Well, I wish all Erels where finsihed of that nicely!! As you see, your lining is with the nice finising of the edge of the cloth, that was not used in all caps. It was also a matter of what cap you ordered as there where different qulities in the lining.

Some interiors where the cloth was not even long enough to stich upp was even sewn upp with a extra round of stichings on the piping above the cap band........that way they could use to "small" linings. I will see if I have some saved pictures of that from heer caps.

With Erels as with all manufacturer, the pre war caps is of much higher quality then the wartime produced ones.

Your cap is a very nice example how a prewar cap should look.

Peter v L

[drbill]

This piece looks like an absolutely textbook original erel to me- I love it!!!!!

[NTZ]

Peter are you sure about the pre-war assessment on my lining? I have owned Standard’s, Extra’s and Privat’s. Some with the air system and some without but all had the ribbed lining and finished ends.

[NTZ]

No definitely not a pre-war. Mine has the D.R.G.M. marking on the sweatband. That was for Lubstein’s Deutsches Reichspatent nr. 694 529 which was given for the sweatband modification which provided the so called air cushion. Awarded July 4th, 1940. The same as on the visor in question.

This would also limit the time frame one could find an Erel color piped SS with the D.R.G.M markings. One can only assume that Lubstein didn’t start marking his sweatbands on July 5th and the color pipes were only authorized until Nov. 1940. Just some more food for though.

[Donald Abenheim]

Plisser oder Plisserieren

Nick's images show to clear effect the much treasured folds of the lining, auf Franzoesisch gesagt, plisser, which was an important part of the hat maker's craft. I always look for the quality of this feature in caps, as well as other tell-tale signs of the skill of the craftsman, or craftswoman, as well. The piping is another aspect that requires double scrutiny in these things. sapere aude

[Peter v L]

I could not see the sweatband on your cap, but it is a early quality cap, it is definatly made before 1943. Later in the war all manufacturers cut corners and used lesser quality, also Erel, it can be seen on the late war caps sweatshields where the Erel loggo almost allways fade away, also the sweatbands later in the war are not as nice as these early tan/brown soft ones. The sidepanels where now most often made by cotton cloth instead of the nicer rayon cloth, bills came with plain black underside or painted in a matte tan colour rather then the nice shiny tan colour seen on early caps etc..............

The sidepanes are made from rayon as in your cap and from cotton like in the SS one. The Early caps with rayon sidepanels had usually nice finished ends, but tat was also dis****ed in the process of saving on material and quality.

Here are a picture from a Erel Standard cap I just got in stock, it is with Rayon sidepanels and it do not have the finsihed ends.

Peter

[Peter v L]

As to Regulations,

SS officers where supposed to use a SS style sidecap with white piping and general officers a SS style sidecap with silver corded piping. We all know it was not like that in reality. SS Officers where wearing Heer style sidecaps with silver cord as well as SS style caps for General officers with silver cord, just look at period photos, they hold the answer, as well as undoubtly original items coming directly from familys and veterans.

SS Officers where supposed to have shoulderboards with a black underlay.............how often can you not see SS officers wearing the Heer style shoulderboards, it was very common.

As with coloured piping on SS Visorcaps. Look at period photos, here is one for instance of "newbaked" WSS Officer Ernst Staudle (KC reciptant) in the Artillery branceh. he is wearing his new officers tunic and a brand spanking new red piped SS Crusher. I do not for a second belive all SS visors with coloured piping where made during the short period they where admitted, they where made by privat manufacturers during all the war as soon as someone ordered one. Look at period photos showing them worn till the last days of the war.

Study period photos they hold a lot of answers as to what was really worn and used during the war, the regulations was not allways followed blindly. I am sure SS did not issue coloured piped caps within their own system after regulations said they should not be worn, but privat manufacturer certainly did.

Peter v L

[sturmbannfuhrer]

That's a great picture Peter. if Staudle's cap came up for scruitiny as an unknown item, many would right it off as a fantasy piece, (from pictures) but not from hand inspection.