Ultra Rare SS Officer's Cufftitle group !

[Tony Barto]

Joseph;

We all appreciate you taking the time to share your items with us. However, I believe that we have arrived at an impasse. It is obvious that you believe your cuffband is original and that the rest believe otherwise. Neither will be swayed from their beliefs. Therefore, I think it is fair to say that this thread has come to its conclusion with respect to learning anything new about the subject matter.

[Seppl]

Just some documentary evidence concerning the spelling of Phleps first name, this is from the cover of the SS "HandSchar " Division magazine from 1943. The commentary at the bottom of the photo spells Phleps name as "ARTHUR" ! In both German & Croatian languages.

[Seppl]

Close up of the caption under the Foto of Phleps from the Handzar Magazine.

[Seppl]

Another text from a German document with Phleps name spelt "ARTHUR".

[SS Wiking]

Regardless of the article you posted, compare yours to the one Gordon posted. The pattern in yours, IMO, does not suit the a known original.

Could yours be a variation?...maybe. A re-pro.....almost for certain.



Regards.

[Seppl]

I appreciate the input from everyone who looked at my thread, I wasn't seeking vindication to it's originality! I wanted to show a cufftitle which I have no reason to doubt, considering it's origin & the other pieces of insignia that came with it, from the original owner who is now dead.
I want to respect his memory & not offend his family by calling them liars. I have seen a lot of non-regulation & odd insignia in this field of collecting, in many things I have seen in indisputable "text' books are fakes. Because, something is not documented in any fotos or the spelling might be in question, doesn't mean it should be automatically be dismissed as being a fake!
If someone who was an expert on this subject, was to hold this piece in their hands & inspect it, you diffinately see it's old, made correctly & hand embroided. I have seen a Nord cufftitle on an Officer's Tunic, which was made very similarly to this one, it has been on that tunic since 1944, when the tailor had sewn the Cufftitle on the Tunic. Yet, there are no fotos or documents even acknowledgement of this cufftitle's existence. When I bought the insignia set from the Family, I was unsure of the Cufftitle either as I had never seen one like it, why should this ex-SS Officer have a fake cufftitle, while the rest of his insignia is beyond dispute?
I leave at that!
Servus
Josef

[Sonny]

Cuff Title

Tony, I respect your request as mod and beg your indulgence:
Hi Seppl, completly discounting the spelling, the AP cuff title was issued very late in the war and was only issued in bevo, as Gordon posted. There are only a few of the bevo's around, by the time they were going to issue the bevo's the Russians were knocking at the door. Having an officers bullion hand sewn cuff title for a Regiment was probably the last thing on anybody's mind.
The block is not anything like I've seen in cuff titles, especially the "t". That is a modern day "t", if you page thru any book on cuff titles you will see the difference.
Also the paper on the back of the cuff title to hold the bullion is usually modern day, most officer hand sewn cuff titles use a flat black cotton that is sewn on to hold the bullion from unraveling.
I sincerly appologise if I was curt before.

[Hauptmann]

Cuff Title aside (the jury seems to be VERY divided and deadlocked), the rest of the grouping looks good. Thanks for posting the photos.

[Seppl]

Sonny, the cufftitle actually has the black cotton cloth on the back with the lettering stitched through it. I only buy SS items from private sources & a curator in the Zagreb History Museum. I don't specialize in SS items, it's only a sideline to my Gebirgsjaeger uniforms & insignia collection & my General Wehrmacht awards.
I'm still perplexed by this whole thing with the Cufftitle, if you going to fake a cufftitle, why not fake the glamour ones like LAH!
It's possible the old SS guy could have had his Cufftitle personally made for him from a piece of real RZM cloth.
But, I have to accept the original info the family of the SS Officer told me. I have seen weird cufftitles made by the Dutch allegedly for the LAH, which many wouldn't except as original. I have seen other privately made cufftitles, even late war period in private hands & the Zagreb Museum. where a saw a Prinz Eugen Cufftitle made in Croatia spelled "Princ Eugen" like the Croat spelling. Actually, Peter von Luckacs had a 'Jugoslav"made one which no one would believe it!
I leave it open, all I will say is you have to hold it in your hand to see my point of view & why I'm so defensive about it!
Many Thanks to all,
Josef

[Gary Wood]

I think as Tony has said this thread has run its course so lets leave it at that, in good spirit and agree to disagree.

Josef I would however like you to post a detailed scan of some of the lettering and cuff title backing and edging if you do not mind doing so
Thanks,
gary

[Frank Pacheco]

Joseph, I think evertime that someone shows a piece you are going to get mixed reviews. In your heart is what matters. It is so sad that lolifes fake WW2 Militaria that you have to have disagreaments. Enjoy your cufftitle.

Frank

[Mike Diano]

Help on this cuff tittle?

Was looking at the cuff-tittle that is for sale by Chris Taylor and need help, is this real or repro? I haven't heard of this unit (ostturkischer Waffen-verband der ss) Need help from the pros, thanks! Would like it to be a center piece of my modiest collection.

[Greg Domian]

Mike,

The Osttikisher CT is original..was produced for the Muslums but so far no photos exist to show it was actually used. But it is real..and one of the few CT's one can afford these days..and the only SS CT in color too!.

Greg