Metal insigna "800"

[Gary Wood]

well on the 2 above it is staring you in the face from the front, anyone know what these are?

[Gary Wood]

eagle

[Sayle F]

Bad skull

Totenkopf acne??

[Gary Wood]

Totenkopf acne??

, well of sorts these are air bubbles in the rubber mould

[Donald Abenheim]

arcane details

Colleague Chapman recently reminded us that, ca. 1934, one could secure insignia in echtsilber and neusilber. That is, real silver and plated alloy with a bright finish. I had a grey cap made of silk in the early 1970s which had an alu. Hoheitszeichen and a silvered (though not 800...) Totenkopf. I always thought the badges mismatched, but I rather think that many TK's were brightly polished in their original idiom, especially for extra wear. My grey cap had nylon-ish piping and is gone these last three plus decades.....

[BenVK]

I wish someone who knew metals would at least test these to see if there is any freakin' silver in them!

"Metal items that are supposed to be silver may be tested first with a magnet. If the magnet is attracted, the item is not silver. To test a piece for silver content, place a drop of silver reagent on a notch in the metal. Pure silver will then turn bright red, while sterling will turn much darker red. Silver that is .800 will test brown, and an object that is only .500 silver will turn green."

What silver reagent is, I have no idea!

[Gary Wood]

"Metal items that are supposed to be silver may be tested first with a magnet. If the magnet is attracted, the item is not silver.

My understanding of the German silver marks is it does not have to be sold silver to be stamped with for example 800 it can be plated , can any one confirm this?

In the UK hallmarks are different and plated items normally have the silver content and then EP on them
cheers
Gary

[Gaspare]

Gary, if the only mark is 800 the piece itself is supposed to be 800 parts silver,,no plating.. , G.

[Guy]

Gary, if the only mark is 800 the piece itself is supposed to be 800 parts silver,,no plating.. , G.

Thats the kiddy, 800 parts per thousand, ie 80%. The Europeans have different purity laws to us.

Yours, Guy.

[TonyS]

I have not seen any 800 marked pieces that I thought were original. At this point in time I only trust the nickel silver plated types.

[Gaspare]

Those pro say they had them on hats back in the 1960s..there are those who also say that yes indeed they were being faked in the 1960s..
Both this thread and the GDC thread present some good arguments pro and con for these insignia.Too bad this never really gets resolved..
Maybe Mr.Chapman could post his period advertisement [or post a link if preveously posted here] for it being offered in echtsilber. Thanks, G.

[derek]

Here is one the early listings that show echt silber insignia. This one is an RZM document listing the first SS items in 1934. Any mention of these badges is gone by 1936. It will, of course, neither authenticate or disprove any specific badges posted here especially as most of the examples are not from this time period. All it can do is indicate real silver was an option for some pieces.
Derek

[Gaspare]

interesting,,thanks for the post Derek.. , G.

[SScollector]

I believe this is simply referring to the outside of the pieces, (the finishes).
As we know, the early Allgemeine SS visor badges came with each of those listed finishes, (nickel-silver, real silver finish, and the standard or unknown, dull finish), but never has one surfaced that was made entirely out of any of these materials and in my opinion, there is absolutely no reason to think that this RZM list means anything to the contrary.
Also, we know that the base materials in 1934, (for skulls), started in bronze/brass and soon after, it changed to CupAl.
Just look at the first 34 pattern SS skull, (the "RZM D.&S.M. GES.GESCH." marked Deschler skulls which were made of bronze/brass).

Also, the nickel plated skulls and eagles are much rarer than the silver plated ones in my experience.

Best, Chris

[Donald Abenheim]

Danke

Here is one the early listings that show echt silber insignia. This one is an RZM document listing the first SS items in 1934. Any mention of these badges is gone by 1936. It will, of course, neither authenticate or disprove any specific badges posted here especially as most of the examples are not from this time period. All it can do is indicate real silver was an option for some pieces.
Derek

Thanks for the very valuable data. I should also stress that this kind of evidence is surely essential in addition to empiricism, especially of the promiscuous and often half-informed kind that somehow adheres to the alchemy of cap badges. Of merit also would be additional sources of the era from such publications as Uniformenmarkt, &c. or the Herstellungsvorschriften d. RZM that describe the silver content of regalia. Or such data from the Ordenskanzlei as in the volume by Doehle, which I think has been reprinted. sapere aude