Insignia Question

[Albert]

Dear All,

What is this insignia?

Thanks,

Albert

[Bobwirtz]

It's an insignia showing successful completion of a LEADERSHIP SCHOOL. I think it might be SA or NSDAP... not sure about the details but I know its a LEADERSHIP SCHOOL of some sort.

Bob

Either that or he's signifying, "Up Yours, Baby!"

[C. Kleijn]

SS-RuSHA, if I recall it correctly.

Cees

[Bobwirtz]

The SS-RuSHA had a sleeve diamond to indicate that department - an odal rune like the Prinz Eugen Division. I know this arrow as seen on SA uniforms meant they attended SA Leadership School. I'm not sure if the SS had it's own leadership school, so if this is an early picture, this man could have attended the SA Leadership School. I'm sure that is what the arrow insignia is for, just not sure who's Leadership School it represents.

Bob

[C. Kleijn]

In that case I stand corrected. I know that they used the Odalrune, but I thought this arrow was another indication. However, I have to admit this is not really my area. Next time I will keep my mouth shut!

Cees

[Albert]

Thanks Bob,

So this SS General has attended the SA Leadership school then.

[Bobwirtz]

It looks like Karl Wolff. I can definitely say it was an insignia for attending a Leadership School; however, I cannot definitively state it was an "SA Leadership School"... I'm not sure if the SS had their own leadership school - same with the NSDAP. I don't have my reference materials here in the office.

Hey Cees: That's perfectly okay. We are here to learn. It wouldn't be the first time that I've been corrected.

[Donald Abenheim]

Korrektur

Thanks Bob,

So this SS General has attended the SA Leadership school then.

You are correct. The SS remained part of the SA 'til the aftermath of the 30 June 1934 Putsch. Wolff must have attended the SA leadership school at that time. Roehm was instrumental in militarizing the SA, and it had a large para-military training base, the so-called Ausbildungswesen, whence were then drawn many officers, i.e. Krueger of "Deutschland," in the period ca. 1933-1934 and thereafter. The Rasse und Siedlungs rune is quite different and worn lower on the sleeve. Look at an image of Walter Darre in this case. Sapere aude.

[Albert]

Thanks again, Gentlemen,

Here are some close ups from the same photo. Who are the Officer and the Generals?

Also, for whom would it have been possible to get that close to take such pictures?

This is one photo from a few that came from the estate of a musician who, in 1935, served in the Music Platoon (M.Z. II / SS I) at Dachau. What is this abbreviation?

Thanks a lot,

Albert

[Albert]

... the Generals:

[Albert]

...a musician who, in 1935, served in the Music Platoon (M.Z. II / SS I) at Dachau.

... and who served with the Music Platoon MZ / SS "Der Führer" in 1941 when he got KIA.

Would it have been possible for him to get that close to such high SS leaders? Were they so "populistic" in the early years?

[Albert]

...a musician who, in 1935, served in the Music Platoon (M.Z. II / SS I) at Dachau.

... and who served with the Music Platoon MZ / SS "Der Führer" in 1941 when he got KIA.

Would it have been possible for him to get that close to such high SS leaders? Were they so "populistic" in the early years?

[Bobwirtz]

...a musician who, in 1935, served in the Music Platoon (M.Z. II / SS I) at Dachau.

... and who served with the Music Platoon MZ / SS "Der Führer" in 1941 when he got KIA.

Would it have been possible for him to get that close to such high SS leaders? Were they so "populistic" in the early years?

I would think so if they were playing gigs for the officers at functions... they'd certainly be in close proximity to these officers. And SS officers were a bit different than their Army counterparts it that there wasn't the same class boundaries between officer, NCO and other ranks. They were teamed together during training and worked in teams. One picture in one of the Waffen-SS books shows an SS-Sturmbannfuhrer (Battalion Commander) helping push a motorcycle dispatch rider out of a mud puddle along with other soldiers. They worked as teams, officer's included. There are many other pictures like Steiner's birthday party where he is shown talking to a Sturmann on his staff.

So, I would give a resounding YES to your last question.

Bob

[Robert H]

very nice pictures Albert, hope to see you soon again in good "old" germany

[all1knew]

Hello all,

On February 18 (I believe 1932) a Thursday (I know this) Wolff spent the day in an empty factory building in Theresienwiese, Munich. The building was housing the Reichsf******252;hrer School of the SA. Up until this date, the factory had been used only to train SA leaders in ideoloy; now the school was available to the SS for the first time.

Taken from Jocen von Lang's book Top Nazi

Hope this helps.

William Kramer