tunic opinions please

[craig a. thomas jr]

Value...

My humble opinion from observations past...

Of course the value is about 1500.00, due to a LAH Bevo cufftitle (which appears to be good). This tunic at best had all the insignia added. The tunic as it sits with only the cufftitle, would tell me most likely bad collar tabs and a bad arm eagle were applied originally with a good cuff title. "Whomever" did it orginally thought they had good insignia at the time. Now over the years that insignia has been deem all repro. Some one knowing the tabs and bird were bad and removed them, and now the tunic is trying to be pushed accordingly. I have seen stitching like this before that attaches the added cuff to this tunic....not the first or the last tunic out there like this. Can you say Frankenstein?

Bottom line is buyer beware....know your source, and then know their source, and their source on things like this. What you see on the surface, is but a drop in the bucket of the bullshi- lurks out there. Your most trusted sources know more than they put on the table in advice.

[John Pic]

Where did the Frankenstein you had end up ?? What bothers me is that people who know things, like who what when where and how, dont discuss them openly because of financial reasons or whatever. Here is a fairly decent looking tunic with an original cufftitle sewn to it and it gets downed here. Part of me wonders why especially after I got an email from a member re a totally different extremely rare allgemeine SS tunic that someone was trying to bilk him out of for half its value.
Im often tempted to post pictures of your frankenstein and elicit an open discussion of it and where it came from.But I never was sure what the truth about it was.

[craig a. thomas jr]

Frankenstein

John,
<OYou bring my Frankenstein up, why is that? The way you defending this tunic is like you have a vested interest in it. Do you? I respect your knowledge John, however you know more than I do about the "hobby" and the "people" that participate in it. Hence, if you are going to have an open discussion… one better be ready to bring the entire truth to the table.

Just to Uppdate you John, the Frankenstein you mention has been stripped of the insignia it had on it. The cuff title is on my wall, as the only trophy left from an "association" with several forum members that I wouldn’t trust for any advice, nor trust what they have ever sold, or will ever sell in the future (hence the statement below). I kept to my word of our last phone conversation.

<O
I learned the hard way…offering my opinion here now to help someone else not pay the $$$ price that I did for a Frankenstein. I would think advising other less experienced/novice collectors would be considered commendable, and I also though that is what a forum is about. To advise, educate and learn the collector.<O
<O
Furthermore, if you are inferring I am trying to contact an owner of an “extremely rare allgemeine SS tunic and that I was/am trying to bilk him out of for half its value”, you are out of line and obviously delusional as the last thing I would ever do is own a tunic again. The truth is out there....

Regards,
Craig

Bottom line is buyer beware....know your source, and then know their source, and their source on things like this. What you see on the surface is but a drop in the bucket of the bullshi- lurks out there. Your most trusted sources know more than they put on the table in advice.

[John Pic]

Hello Craig, My interest is to be helpful and to educate the unknowing so they can protect themselves from the vast pit of scoundrels in this hobby.

I know you had nothing to do the Allgemeine tunic I didnt infer that you did and was only pointing out a recent example of how people talk big money here but behind the scenes offer a piddle for pieces that are owned by the unknowing.I rspect the opinions of those who are more realistic like Mike C.and Feldebel, although on a SS tunic I disagree.

You sent me a tunic to possibly selll to me and asked my opinion on it and I gave it to you,I did a service for you then learned the truth about the tunic. A few saw that tunic at the SOS, and were told where and who it was aquired from. I am honest, sorry about that in this day and age thats a fault.When I learned the truth or what was told to me, and then was contacted by the thrid party dealer, I told you both I wanted to be left out of any squabbles. I dont know who was telling me the truth. But I have in the past used such examples to back my posts about whats being faked out there and here was evidence.You asked me to keep my mouth shut and I did and you know what? I paid for that because I was browbeaten in the past by respected people for "insinuating" that some are making up tunics and passing them off as real. My threads got deleted and locked all to protect the ones who profit from this.Im a bit angry and frankly, I think after your incident and your request to me to keep my mouth shut so you could stay on friendly terms with the dealer, you should just sit back and be quiet and learn.

Now here you tell people to beware but you dont say why, and you have a reason to say why.Except you were threatened with legal action and I know because I was sent a copy of the email.No Craig Im only looking out for those who dont want to be sold a bill of goods, Im not accusing you of being the culprit in anything just disagree with your low assesment.In fact I dont think youre even qualified to give one.

[John Pic]

I want to apologize publicly to Craig, I am at a point in my years where I am frustrated with the way the hobby has gone. Dealers who have tailors doing expert work and people who believe in them whole heartedly and pay overly high amounts of thier hard earned money for refurbished or restored items. Frustrated with the support given to them by people who talk one way but live another. I am jumping on Craig because an unfortunate situation in his experiences that I have no right to discuss in a forum frustrated me when I became a third party. Craig is a good guy and let me hold a tunic he sent for two months. I got angry because ths tunic was a prime example of what a dealer who everyone loves can distribute. I wont name names and feel there is no longer a need as Ive learned most dont realy care what they spend thier mney on as long as its visually satisfying.My experience naming names never taught anyone anything in fact it seems to garner more support for the culprits. I will end it hear and Im sorry for the above post. Craig is a super nice guy and very much one who wants to help the community.

[craig a. thomas jr]

Apolygy accepted and appreciated...

John,

I know your heart is in the right place, and I know how you feel concerning the fabrication of these Frankenstein's. Whether they are tunics, visors, field caps, overseas caps, helmets, dog tags and even flare gun cases.... where there is a buyer with money and not enough sence to ask the right questions when it doubt, these Frankensteins will continue to be manufactured.

Your concern and mine is the ones that are out there now, and that have gained legitimacy over the years as good and now are demanding the same money an "original" peice. In this is the dishonesty and the crime of them being accepted as good. Thus soiling the market, and the knowledge of future collectors.

The truth is out there, and will continue to surface as time passes on.

Still hope to meet you one day...if you get to Socal to get together with Kevin, let me know.

Best Regards, (as I will never use the term "cheers" again)
Craig

Bottom line is buyer beware....know your source, and then know their source, and their source on things like this. What you see on the surface is but a drop in the bucket of the bullshi- lurks out there. Your most trusted sources know more than they put on the table in advice.

[Ludwig]

-

It´s not logic to find a SS-BW marking in a tunic that wasn´t originally made by them.
If you have an standard tunic you go to the nearest tailor to get it changed. You don´t send it into the "BW-system" – and if you do they certainly will not mark it with their stamp.
I would say it´s like you have your Juncker-made EK1 repaired by the jeweller in your hometown and the jeweller in question hallmarks it with his logo or number.
Perhaps the tunic is OK.
Perhaps some idiot just stamped it SS-BW to make it more attractive?

[Felix]

Ludwig;

I have come to this conclusion myself. Logic thinking!

There is a posssibility of a replaced liner that was original stamped SSBW that a local tailor used. Who knows?

//Felix