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**ReichsHeini** · 01-06-2003, 10:30 AM

totenkopf and adler numbers

Giogio,
Here is a list:
List of known BAD numbers used on SS cap skulls –

M1/17

M1/25

M1/52

M1/122

360/42 & 44

373/43

380/40

460/??

475/39, 42 & 43

499/41 (also a good number used on originals)

There are also pieces in recent years from Latvia with no markings and pieces from Asia with a funky little RZM circle and SS runes and that’s it.

Known GOOD numbers-

M 1/24

M 1/52 (also a bad number used on reproductions)

155/36 (ASSMAN)

254/42 (DESCHLER, )

499/41 (also a bad number used on reproductions)

RZM 52

S.P. 40

This information may help you!
ReichsHeini

**giorgio** · 01-06-2003, 11:56 AM

thank you very much ReichsHeini, very kind of you....
may I ask you if does exist a "M1/72" on SS adler? and if the list of the numbers you have posted is just for skulls or they there must be on the eagles as well?
I mean....if I find a number behind an eagle, should I find the same on the back of the skull or not?
Sorry if I take advantage of your knowledge........thank you very much indeed
Warmest regards
Giorgio

**ReichsHeini** · 01-06-2003, 12:49 PM

eagle markings

Giorgio,
I have seen several original allgemeine and waffen visor caps that had matched skull/eagle sets, but I have also seen them un-matched. I am sure individual pieces were replaced due to loss etc. I have rarely seen a loose set of matching cap insignia. I frequently have seen matching repros for sale though.
To the best of my knowledge this list of good/bad codes would be the same for eagles also. The list was compiled by Rick Turner, a collector and contributor to the Germandaggers.com SS Uniform forum.
Here are two links to the topic. These threads include great photos of good and bad examples.

Good skulls
Bad skulls
Forums like this one and GDC provide a great place to start your homework when researching potential investments.
The list I posted was made through the combined collecting experience of Rick and others. Rick and others that collect these little guys have had many years of experience with reproductions. I believe the list of bad numbers is an accumulation of non-existant RZM contract numbers AND RZM contracts that were not granted for metal cap insignia either to a specific manufacturer or that manufacturer did not have a contract for metal cap insignia during the year indicated in the alleged RZM code.
Either way I would avoid cap insignia with markings on bad list and if it is a code used on original and fake pieces you should post pictures of it for authentication by more experienced collectors.
ReichsHeini

**Gary Wood** · 01-06-2003, 01:23 PM

"I ask you if does exist a "M1/72" on SS adler? "

yes this is an original mark to be found on cap eagles but again it is reproduced, the best way is to post an image of the items, if you need images posting I will do it for you,
cheers,
Gary

**merdock** · 01-06-2003, 04:44 PM

Hi,
Is this list compleate?
i have some different ones,
5/8 skulls
M1/16 eagle
M1/40 eagle
40 eagle
and are you sure their was not a original marked M1/122

Merdock

**giorgio** · 01-08-2003, 05:06 AM

thank you to everyone for the useful informations
ciao Giorgio

**Jean Pierre Redeuilh** · 01-09-2003, 08:46 AM

Hello All,

In the list of "good" numbers, there is an Assmann RZM/SS contract number listed as early as 1936 (155/36).
What drags my interest is this date: 1936

Could you please tell me where it could be possible to see this marking in detail, or maybe post a photo ?
Second, is there ANY other SS item made by Assmann bearing the same marking (155/36) or an earlier date (155/35 or 155/34 for example) known definitively as original ?

I will appreciate greatly any feedback

Best Regards to All

**Gary Wood** · 01-09-2003, 02:31 PM

Jean Pierre

Yes there are original ss eagles with 155/36, here is a picture,

**Jean Pierre Redeuilh** · 01-09-2003, 05:50 PM

Thank You Gary ! I already sent you an email.

Does anyone knows when Assmann got his RZM/SS contract number ? Or is there any 155/34 or 155/35 marked SS items known ?

Best Regards To All

**Rick Turner** · 01-09-2003, 09:55 PM

Well I guess I should say thanks for the kind words here gents in my first post, makes all the effort really seem well worth it, thanks very much.

The above list is truly a collection of many opinions and past experiences of many collectors and was compiled as such. No part is etched in stone, its a work in progress. We can add to or take away as more information is contributed. In some cases maybe a (?) and a footnote would be appropriate.

Best Regards and good luck to the new forum.
Rick

**Gary Wood** · 01-09-2003, 09:57 PM

Rick,
welcome your input here will be appreciated,
cheers,
Gary

**Tony Barto** · 01-09-2003, 10:06 PM

Hi Rick;

Thank you and welcome to the forum!!

**Rick Turner** · 01-10-2003, 10:47 AM

Thanks guys, I’m really looking forward to a productive forum and a good year of collecting.

Here is the list as it appears today, more numbers have been added, proper names of manufacturers (on the good side) have been added. Items with photos have been noted as well. I see there are already new things to add!

Also note the word “known” has been removed, remember, this is a compilation of a little of everything, documentation, opinions, observations and experiences.

Myself, I’m only the caretaker of the list, the list really belongs to the collectors. What I would sincerely like to do is to continue to fine tune the list so it is the best “opinion” that collectors in current time have on this very “undocumented” area of SS collecting. Although the focus of the original list was cap skulls I’ve decided to expand it to try and include the flood of eagles out there as well.

Jean- No sacred cows on this list, I’ve followed your threads on the use of the 155 number on SS buckles and would like to hear more about the use of this number and its origins with the Assmann firm.

Also, I’m thinking of creating a third category called ‘Unconfirmed’ and moving any borderline pieces to that category. So without further ado, the LIST-

List of GOOD numbers used on SS cap skulls and eagles-

M 1/24 (Overhoff and Cie, photo)
M 1/52 (Deschler and Sohn, photo, also a bad number used on reproductions)
155/36 (E. W. Assmann and Sohne, photo of cap eagle)
254/42 (Deschler and Sohn, photo)
499/41 (Fritz Zimmerman, photo, also a bad number used on reproductions with 800 marks, photo)
RZM 52 (photo)
S.P. 40 (photo)

List of BAD numbers used on SS cap skulls and eagles–

M5/8 (photo)
M1/17 (photo and eagles)
M1/25
M1/52 (photo, also a good number used on originals)
M1/122 (photo)
M1/163 (photo of cap eagle)
M1/172 (photo of cap eagle)
360/42, 43 & 44 (photo of 42, 44 and 44 eagle)
373/43 (photo)
380/40
460/??
475/39, 42 & 43 (photo of 42, 43 skulls and 39, 43 eagles)
499/41 (photo, also a good number used on originals)

There are also pieces in recent years from Latvia with no markings and pieces from Asia with a funky little RZM circle and SS runes and that’s it. (photo)

Have at it guys!

Best Regards
Rick Turner

**Jean Pierre Redeuilh** · 01-10-2003, 11:17 AM

Hello Rick,

"Jean- No sacred cows on this list, I’ve followed your threads on the use of the 155 number on SS buckles and would like to hear more about the use of this number and its origins with the Assmann firm."

What you mean, or what do you want to know ? I am sorry but I sometimes do not understand everything since English is not my main language.

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