SS Kavelry dimond patch?

[Arran]

I notice in the close-up portrait that the visor cap has two ventilation grommets on each side...not something I've seen before on an SS cap...

Cheers,
Arran.

[Douglas Kerley]

HI; I have gotten a number of Emails about this. Several guys want it but they want me to set the value. I've had a total of a dozen SS items in last five years. This is way out of my area. I've put a bunch of stuff up on Ebay reciently. Maybe I'll just stick it up there with a high reserve and see where it goes. Doug

[Gary Wood]

Thank you Gary,
Great images. It certainly looks like Arran is correct in thinking it's Nordwest, although I suppose it could also be Nordost. Do any images show his standarte number?

Derek,
Alas these are the only images i have, from the photo on his collar tab he looks like he is wearing crossed lances (no numerals ).

Here is a shot of the monument in the background

again thank all for your help
cheers
Gary

[Gary Wood]

I notice in the close-up portrait that the visor cap has two ventilation grommets on each side...not something I've seen before on an SS cap...

Cheers,
Arran.

Arran,
Here is another shot of the same thing
cheers
Gary

[Donald Abenheim]

Loecher

The ventilation holes in these early caps are a standard feature. I have seen them on numerous examples. Wonderful thread here of interesting regalia, nice images, and very sound knowledge. Maybe colleague Chapman can enlighten us, as he is particularly skilled in this material. Sapere aude. PS As to the war memorial above, this must have been a newish monument to someplace with a cavalry garrison, actually. Maybe it is in the horse country of Westfalia or East Prussia, but surely some town with a garrison heritage of cavalry of some kind.Many German and Austrian towns got a war mounment of this kind in the course of the 1920s, if they had not had something earlier from the wars of German unification. Ours in Kaiserslautern (where I worked in the early-1980s) was a pretty extravagant affair, actually, not unlike this Reiterstandbild. Brueck/Leitha, on the way from Vienna to Pressburg ( I often pass this way...), has one too, and this place is slightly more than a village. Sapere aude.

[derek]

The collar patches for the mounted units of the SS were introduced in May, 1934 so I presume the sleeve diamond was brought in at the same time. From checking a few documents it would appear that cavalry units were, at this time, either grouped into their own standarten or if not, subordinated to the Oberabschnitte. Thus there are cavalry cufftitles with golden yellow borders and the name of the Oberabschnitte with a number or without, and titles with the golden yellow borders numbered 1 to 9.
Derek

[Donald Abenheim]

Reitersturm vs. Reiterstandarten

Dear Colleague, as ever, your material is first rate. Can you generalize about the order of battle of these cavalry coys. vs. cavalry regiments ca. 1934 or say, 1939? What is a good source on this score? To be sure, in early-1934 the organization is very much in flux. I wonder what the equivalent SA organization was? Wonderful material. By the way, from what I can determine, some of these mounted units were later united with this odd RFSS Wachregiment or whatever it is called in the Orgbuch of 1938 and were used for genocidal purposes in Poland and the USSR.

[derek]

I'm afraid there isn't much around on this subject that I know of. Mark Yeager has a section at the end of his volume on the Allgemeine-SS that is useful.
Generally speaking the cavalry units seem to me to follow the history of the motor units. That is, subject to huge growth in the period 1934-1935 followed by a reorganisation and reduction of personnel in 1936-1937 as the practicality of these organisations outweighed the fashionable and social aspects. This is seen in the Statistical Yearbooks for these years. I do have these somewhere and can post the relevant figures if you would like.
I suspect that the reason for the some units being directly subordinate to their Oberabschnitte is that they were probably absorbed into the SS as Riding Clubs and were too small or remote to be incorporated into a Standarte.
Derek

[Donald Abenheim]

I'm afraid there isn't much around on this subject that I know of. Mark Yeager has a section at the end of his volume on the Allgemeine-SS that is useful.
Generally speaking the cavalry units seem to me to follow the history of the motor units. That is, subject to huge growth in the period 1934-1935 followed by a reorganisation and reduction of personnel in 1936-1937 as the practicality of these organisations outweighed the fashionable and social aspects. This is seen in the Statistical Yearbooks for these years. I do have these somewhere and can post the relevant figures if you would like.
I suspect that the reason for the some units being directly subordinate to their Oberabschnitte is that they were probably absorbed into the SS as Riding Clubs and were too small or remote to be incorporated into a Standarte.
Derek

Thanks. I would be very grateful to see other relevant citations from your documentary Fundgrube. There are some files in the Bundesarchiv on the Allgemeine SS of relevance, here. The finding aids are on line. Have you looked at their website? All the best, DA

[derek]

Here, from the 1936 Yearbook, is the chart that shows the decrease in membership of both branches. The 1937 edition is more detailed about the units, I will seek this out and post it for you.
Derek

[Donald Abenheim]

Donnerwetter!

That's very interesting, indeed! Where did these people go? Were they drafted into the Wehrmacht as it grew in size? Or, were resources diverted in favor of the paramilitary units in the SSVT and TV which grew at this time---but the latter were financed with state versus party funds, were they not? Thanks again. Your documentary and archival resources are a real treasure and you are very kind to share them with us. You also set a standard of coduct on these sites, where one often seeks in vain to learn something new, reliable and practical.

[derek]

Thank you,
You are most kind. Here is the next year, more professionally done you'll note. The number of units has been reduced from previous years and the personnel are still decreasing. I think we can safely assume that many of these cavalry men are migrating to the Wehrmacht, although the need for horsemen in the SS-VT, still to a great degree a horse-powered military organisation, would not be insignificant.
Derek

[Donald Abenheim]

!!!

Marvelous material, really splendid. Does anyone have any spare Statistical Yearbooks for the SS on offer? A perfect source for the serious collector-scholar, indeed. I guess this data also underscores why such regalia is quite rare, as well. Do you have the year book for 1939? Does it break down the mass of the ranks, ca. 250,000 into the respective branches, &c?

[Gary Wood]

Derek,
Thanks for sharing the above material. With regard to the decreasing numbers within each of the above standarte how does this compare to other standarten.

Many thanks again
cheers
Gary

[derek]

Gary,
During this same period the Allgemeine-SS as a whole increased slightly in strength with most of the standarten fluctuating only a little here and there. Around this time it was the speciality units were the ones who were being streamlined as it were. The Cavalry, Signals, Pioneer and Motorised units were all consolidated and tightened up.
The Allgemeine-SS overall head count was:
1935 - 188,108
1936 - 185, 656
1937 - 190, 976
Hope this helps, let me know if there's anything else.
Derek