RZM button maker help please

[bratwurstdimsum]

Hi there, I just removed the chinstrap button from my cap and it has a RZM M5 which seems correct for a button but a maker of 13.

ie.

RZM
M5/13

Can anyone identify the maker please?

Cheers

Jeff

[Donald Abenheim]

Hi there, I just removed the chinstrap button from my cap and it has a RZM M5 which seems correct for a button but a maker of 13.

ie.

RZM
M5/13

Can anyone identify the maker please?

Cheers

Jeff

Robert Deitenbeck, Luedenscheid. I was around when CR Davis published his book in the 1970s and scarcely a week goes by that I do not have cause to use same. Sapere aude.

[bratwurstdimsum]

Oh! The other side has a different maker...

RZM
M5/75

Lumsden's book is like that for me but doesn't have any button references

I guess this manufactuer only made metal buttons/uniform accessories but would not necessarily have made the hat?

[Donald Abenheim]

Oh! The other side has a different maker...

RZM
M5/75

Lumsden's book is like that for me but doesn't have any button references

I guess this manufactuer only made metal buttons/uniform accessories but would not necessarily have made the hat?

Dr. Franke & Co KG, Luedenscheid. The cap maker received buttons from makers of same. This is quite common, for instance, on black SS officer's caps. Mueller may have made the cap, but the side buttons were Assmann. Sapere aude. Some of these firms under the rubric of, M/5, may have made other things. Assmann, for instance, had various M #'s and perhaps beyond. M5, however, was "Uniformeffekten." Surely certain of these firms made other items. However, cap makers were A1 Muetzenmacher, A2 Muetzenfabriken or A3 DAF Muetzen , I believe.

[bratwurstdimsum]

Ok bear with me here, I don't quite get it

I see two button makers here Franke & Co on the left and Deitenbeck on the right hand side, but I have no idea who the cap maker is.

Is that what your assessment is Donald?

Jeff

[Donald Abenheim]

Ok bear with me here, I don't quite get it

I see two button makers here Franke & Co on the left and Deitenbeck on the right hand side, but I have no idea who the cap maker is.

Is that what your assessment is Donald?

Jeff

Does your cap have a cloth RZM Tag? If so, you can tell; if not, then it is rather dicey. I cannot post images here, so you must avail yourself of some other medium. However, generally, the maker of the cap itself is via the cloth RZM tag.

[bratwurstdimsum]

Ahhh...right, well the cap is wehrmacht and looks like this:

I'll PM you my email and you can send it to me if you like...



but no tags unfortunately.

[Donald Abenheim]

Wehrmacht und Partei

I am sure others will speak, but army caps existed in the procurement system of that institution (vs. that of the NSDAP and its branches &c.) and, of course, private hatters and retailers of military goods made and sold army caps in their number. However, I am sure, in limited cases, that RZM'd buttons were used on such military regalia, but it is not a common thing. Regalia makers surely contracted to the state and the party, as is easily seen in the adverts. in the Wilkins book. I have collected army caps, too, and still own several, actually, in addition to those of the Schutzstaffeln d. NSDAP. There are many generic army caps, devoid of a maker's label. I suppose only higher powers know who made such caps, in the final analysis. Viel Sammlerglueck nach Australien. As to examples of cloth RZM tags, do look on the World Militaria Collector's site under the SS rubric and there is a heading there, or someone can dredge up an image here. Or, do buy the Wilkins book from Schiffer, which must also be had in your part of the English speaking world.

[bratwurstdimsum]

Many thanks Donald.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Jeff, in addition to Donald's answer, I too can confirm that RZM marked buttons do turn up on Heer caps. I have Vet acquired Heer Officers Einheitsfeldmutze with RZM marked buttons.

Cheers, Ade.