Photo with Uniform Question

[-Michael]

Beautiful picture! It’s a little bit late, but has nobody noticed that the SS-Männer are wearing SD-shoulder boards? That’s also the connection with the police members at the background.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o></o>
There was a SD-unit in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:State><st1lace>Tunis</st1lace></st1:State>, that could be the reason why these men are wearing DAK-uniforms.<o></o>
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[SCHUPO]

Excellent photos. There are some assumptions being made about these folks from thier uniforms.

First, I don't see any "SD-shoulder boards" in wear and don't really know what those would be. The SD and the Sicherheitspolizei wore the same collar tabs and shoulder boards as the SS until January 1942 when the police pattern shoulder straps were introduced for both SD and SIPO. These men are not SD or SIPO.

Second, these folks could be a mixed unit of W-SS and Polizei or they could have simply been put together for this photo. One thing that I do find interesting is the last single photo from the album. Notice the SS rune tab. It is certainly not a "textbook" collar tab with these thin offset runes. It is always nice to see this type of odd ball insignia that would be declared as fake in period photographs.

I for one would love to see more photos from the album.

[Hardigan]

I also think the little man is Sipo with Sturmscha.-polizei shoulder-boards

[JoeW]

Hallo 'RD Rygaard' and everybody!

If the pics are takes in corsica, the men in tropical uniform belonged to the 'Reichsführer SS batallion', that was there in the summer of 1943.
here's some info:

Begleit-Bataillon Reichsführer SS was originally formed within Himmler's Headquarters Staff [Kommandostab RFSS] on 15 May 1941 at the SS Barracks at Oranienburg.

In February 1943 Hitler ordered that this escort battaillon, having proved itself in battle, be upgraded to the status of an assault brigade or Sturmbrigade thus Sturmbrigade Reichsführer SS was established. It was stationed on the island of Corsica in the summer of 1943.

On 2 October 1943 Sturmbrigade Reichsführer SS was used to establish the 16. SS-Panzergrenadier-Division Reichsführer SS. Just prior to this in September 1943 the Begleit-Bataillon Reichsführer SS was reformed with 4 Companies and a separate Feldpostnummer.

Then in June 1944 it appears that the reformed Begleit-Bataillon Reichsführer SS was exchanged with the II. Bataillon of SS-Panzergrenadier-Regiment 35 of the 16. SS-Panzergrenadier-Division Reichsführer SS.

The 16. SS-Panzergrenadier-Division Reichsführer SS continued to fight in Italy until February 1945 and then to Hunagry in February and March 1945 and then the Steiermark in April and May 1945. The fate of the Begleit-Bataillon Reichsführer SS is not clear...

cheers

Interesting history of the Begleit-Btl. RFSS. I acquired a carved wood bust of one of the company sgts. dated early 1945. By that time, the Btl. had been renamed Steiermark as was Himmler's train and followed him everywhere. It was described as a batallion of Orpo troops. From Hohenlychen in late April, Himmler sent a deputy to Hitler in Berlin with the offer of the batallion for the final battle. The offer was never made and the batallion followed Himmler to Schleswig where he released the policemen from their duty before trying to slip by the Brits.

[-Michael]

These SS-men are wearing Polizei-Shoulderboards. They must be in SiPo\SD-service. That's probebly why they are photographed with OrPo-men.

Michael

[hochiminhtrail]

for my part i just cant beleive they have incorporated a north africain into the a police unit, i think this is a little bit out of reality if you ask me, there was some north africains in the french north african phlalange that served with German forces and that were under the command of the Vichy regime, but i highly doubt a north african serving in full Police uniform, and not as a HIWI, maybe i m wrong but for me this guy just got a sun burn.
Maybe we should ask the guys in the police section on WAF what they think about the regulation of non aryan serving in the police.

Cheers

Alex

[hochiminhtrail]

the only think i can come up with is that he is a volksdeutscher from Yougolslavia, that might give him the dark sun burnt face.

Cheers

alex

[NickG]

These SS-men are wearing Polizei-Shoulderboards. They must be in SiPo\SD-service. That's probebly why they are photographed with OrPo-men.

Michael

I agree with Michael, not Waffen SS. These Polizei troops were just supplied those SS pattern summer uniforms (and caps) with factory sleeve eagles and added Polizei shoulderboards, which is proof of their real branch.
Its SiPo\SD-service, not RFSS! Their age is another indicator of that...Too old for SS combat troops! I bet that their belt buckles are also Polizei. This explains why the other men (also too old for SS) wear Polizei uniforms, another indicator of their true branch! That's my take on this!
Nick

[Ernst-H]

the men wearing Saharina tunics are not Polizei. Maybe SD as has been suggested based upon the shoulderboards.

If they were Polizei they would have worn Polizei insignia on their Saharina tunics and caps.
The practice of Saharina tunics with police insignia is well documented.
I do not have the original regulation but I have several pictures of Policemen wearing saharina tunics with full police insignia, both original in my collection as well as digital shared with me by friends.

A polizei saharina tunic, as well as a Polizei Saharina shirt, is also pictured on my website

[NickG]

Of course you are right Ernst. When I wrote Polizei I should have written Polizei-like (SD or SiPo or something along those lines) as they wear polizei-like shoulderboards. They have a Polizei function, these are not combat troops. The argument was if they were RFSS (Waffen SS) or not and they are not! Its obvious based on the shoulderboards (and their age). Thanks for correcting me. I love your site and Polizei sahariana pictures. Earlier prior to this thread I started a thread on Polizei Saharianas in the polizei section. What a coincidence! Nick

[Tommaso]

I did bought the first of the pictures posted few years back.
I have always tought that they were guys from the RFSS.
Are we sure that they are from and SD\SiPo unit?
Weren't SD\Sipo supposed to wear the diamond on the sleeve?

Cheers
T