SS eagle

[Donald Abenheim]

Wiener Militaereffekten

To date no one has come forward with evidence that these even existed during the war like a wartime pic showing one or a known documented vet aquired example from before the 1990s.

I have produced and maintain files showing a number of tunics with this example of eagle and loose examples all coming from the same sources and appearing in numbers at shows with Seider of Wien tags attached.Always in minty condition with little wear or age effects. I cant prove they are fake, but more important since you own it, you cannot prove they are real and when you do I would like the specific info that led to the conclusion so I can run out and buy a tunic with one on it. I did at least three threads on these but because all the tunics were being sold by dealers on a dealer sponsered forum few experts participated. I wont waste anymore time on them you have to learn on your own by doing the research I did and arriving at your own conclusion. At this point any tunic I see with them is at best a filler piece...and if Jim Toncar told me it was original I would believe him due to his experience in SS cloth, but it so happens we share the same opinion and Im happy to know that.

I believe it is "Sieder" of Vienna, a firm that was still making fake insignia in the early-1970s as well as the cap badges of the Vienna city transit company, among others. I saw a forgery of Hermann Goering's peaked cap on the premises in the summer of 1973. Vienna was surely a center of fakery from the onset, granted what Graham Greene has left behnd for us in the person of Harry Lyme and the "Third Man" and the remnants of same even in the present. One occasion, however, the Staatspolizei raids the militaria locales in Vienna, seizes the regalia and poses hard questions to the owners...viel Sammerlglueck!

[Felix]

I would like to see any period photo or a provenance "un-messed" tunic with this kind of sleeve eagle. Any photo in any reference book.

[Mike Davis]

*Comments deleted by Gary Wood*

How very nice.

Asks for help, gets it from an expert, and then responds in this unprofessional manner!

[John Pic]

Just posting a supportive blurb with a smiley thumbs up next to it means nothing. For all we know you may have never even held a real SS officers sleeve eagle,ever. So without the credibilty it serves no one to just jump in and not post your facts to back it. Loose originals are rarely encountered anymore so if you have a collection of them with this example dating back before 1990 then show us.

[Felix]

It is also interesting to see the way the eagle is sewn on. It is machine sewn on in a zig zag pattern. Officers eagles are mostly neatly hand stitched on place. This fact should also be taken into consideration and it would be really interesting to see the rest of the panzer wrap.

/Felix

[John Pic]

It does appear to be zig zag stitched, I never even noticed I was so focused on just the eagle. In 25 years of handling SS officer tunics I have never seen a bullion sleeve eagle sewn on in this manner on an original tunic. I did examine one obvious frankenstein post war tunic with one attatched post war in that manner. Not a very good sign. I would love to see the other insignias.Machine sewn tabs,cufftilte .

[SJP]

John,Did Sieder produce anything pre45?

[John Pic]

Hello, Yes I am told they did, however I have never seen one of the eagles tagged with Seider tags on any credible SS tunic. There are two types found with these tags and one type with extra bullion highlites added. Here are some pics.

[John Pic]

The same type with added accent

[John Pic]

More of that type

[John Pic]

The second type that shows up with these tags

[Pieter Verbruggen]

*Comments deleted by Gary Wood*

So...do not ask for an opinion...

For those who do not know Jim, he's one of the most respected and knowledgeble collectors in the field,.... so if he's Bull sh** you better love the smell of it.
Pieter.

[John Pic]

The Tag found usually glued on the backside sometimes sometimes no tag is found. Interesting since most made within the Reich were under RZM approved makers and often mint examples retain the RZM tag. Seider being in Austria would have fell under these guidelines I beleive but we find these tags instead? We dont find any collar tabs of the SS with these however. Mostly police and heer shoulder boards.

[Robert H]

Here another Sieder fake. When somebody is realy in this hobby and make these days the easy online searches will find out many answers on his own.
Also about these Sieder eagles.

[John Pic]

A worn example sold in an auction, the only worn one Ive seen and who can tell if its real or artificial age?

USMC David you partook in a discussion of these on the other forum with the Totekopf officer tunic. You later concluded on this forum that tunic was post war assembled with the dealer supporting your findings.Where is it that you are confused of about the fact these are used for just that purpose restoring old tunics, sewing them to new tunics and selling them as real at real prices!! Look at the two recent ones appearing on another web dealers site within 2 weeks of each other with the exact same style sleeve eagles!! Cmon wake up collectors.Its your money.It wouldnt be so bad if they were sold for what they are but they are not and therein lies the problem....greed.