SS eagle

[Robert H]

revers with the paper tag, everything is realy not new about this old examination with these eagles.

[John Pic]

The backside and this one had added thread highlights look at the overall construction not the highlights they were meant to distract.

[Donald Abenheim]

The Tag found usually glued on the backside sometimes sometimes no tag is found. Interesting since most made within the Reich were under RZM approved makers and often mint examples retain the RZM tag. Seider being in Austria would have fell under these guidelines I beleive but we find these tags instead? We dont find any collar tabs of the SS with these however. Mostly police and heer shoulder boards.

Do you really think this tag is authentic? Austrian firms were subject to the RZM once the Anschluss took place (March 1938); whether they enforced all the regulations in a Piefke manner is another issue entirely. The Davis book on metal regalia lists numerous Austrian makers, which I assumed applied to cloth regalia contractors, too. The Handbuch d. RZM was published in 1935, but the Mitteilungsblaetter must have contained the relevant addenda. Derek Chapman could speak to this point, I am sure.

[derek]

My area of expertise is headgear but certainly in that area it would appear in period documents from 1938 on that RZM regulations were comprehensively applied and observed throughout Austria.<BR>On another note I too would like to join the other participants in this thread who have expressed dissatisfaction with USMC's rude and inappropriate response to another member's opinion. If this is your attitude to an opinion that you obviously have no interest in hearing why on earth post the item in the first place?<BR>The least we can do on these forums is conduct ourselves with common courtesy.
Derek

[John Pic]

Donald you may misunderstand my post. I am saying that I believe if these were authentic eagles and as mass produced as they are they should have been tagged with RZM tags rather than the Seider label. They do not fall under the category of " foreign made Varient" which there were from countries like Italy,France, Belgium,etc. But these varients are as rare or more rare than the RZM styles of which Im aware of at least four to include the earliest style. The types above have shown up enmasse therefor its my opinion they are not just"varients".

[John Pic]

Here is a foreign made varient of which there is photographic proof of officers wearing them to include Otto Weidinger on one of his tunics. If Photographic proof showed up of this rare varient then why has it not for those two styles discussed here which seem to appear on a huge percentage of officer tunics after the mid 90s and I have a list of I believe over 40 tunics sold in the past 7 years with those on them and now three more to add to it.

[Donald Abenheim]

Etikett, Etikett, oh Etikett!

Donald you may misunderstand my post. I am saying that I believe if these were authentic eagles and as mass produced as they are they should have been tagged with RZM tags rather than the Seider label. They do not fall under the category of " foreign made Varient" which there were from countries like Italy,France, Belgium,etc. But these varients are as rare or more rare than the RZM styles of which Im aware of at least four to include the earliest style. The types above have shown up enmasse therefor its my opinion they are not just"varients".

I am sure I misunderstand most things, to be sure. Whether authentic regalia would have an RZM tag or the Sieder label is a legitimate question, in which case, I believe if Sieder made these badges (and they WOULD NOT HAVE MADE SS BADGES IN AUSTRIA BEFORE MID-1938, GRANTED THE EVENTS OF JULY, 1934...Dollfuss, Planetta, Holzweber ppp.) then surely they would have marks conforming to the RZM regulations, i.e. no trademarks on contractor materiel. I think this Sieder label is a fake, myself, but you chaps are much more expert in this regalia than am I. I also imagine that this fake label originates elsewhere than Sieder itself, which like Souval and the other old line Vienna firms that were also of the period, have long since expired. I say this, because I spend a fair amount of time on the Danube professionally and have made contact with figures in the militaria Szene. I have owned one of these badges in 39 years and stupidly sold it for a meaningless sum. In any case, for all those in collector land, I consider my Oreogonian colleague as well as colleague Toncar the leaders in this field, and encourage others to learn from their empirical skill as well as wide range of experience. Most important they share their knowledge without stint, even if the process is vexxing to some. This stuff is requires excellent skills of the mind, strong nerves, much patience and some self control, to be sure.

[Gary Wood]

**

David (USMC DAVID ),

This sort of behaviour belongs in the school play ground and is totally unacceptable here, you owe Mr Toncar an apology.

You asked for opinions you got them you might not have liked them but that does not excuse rude remarks like the one in your post that was uncalled for end of story.

Regards
Gary Wood
I have deleted your comments in that post , you also need to empty your PM box as well as its full

[TONY Q.W.]

I have found a war photo of David's (USMC) eagle in the book
"God, Honor, Fatherland" on page 199. I'm preaty sure it is the same style eagle.

Regards,

[Felix]

Please show us that photo then....

I would be happy to be prooven wrong, but not until substantial evidence has been presented.

Cheers,

Felix

[Joseph Porta]

God,Honor,Fatherland.

Is that the book on the Grossdeutschland Division?
If so,the only picture of an SS Officer is one depicting a Totenkopf Div. SS Hauptstumfuhrer...A great photo at that,but I can't quite remember what the eagle looked like.

[CWP]

To me, the eagle in the aforementioned wartime photo does indeed look like the one in post #1 of this thread.

Chris P.

[Gary Wood]

To me, the eagle in the aforementioned wartime photo does indeed look like the one in post #1 of this thread.

Chris P.

Can someone post that picture?
cheers
Gary

[SJP]

The original shows better detail than this scan.It does appear to be a Sieder type to me. Cheers Steve

[John Pic]

The head looks similar to the second Sieder type I posted but still cant see the detail of the wing. I have a photo of an SS officer with an eagle that has the same thread highlights as the Sieder but it is a different weave of bullion. This one is the closest so far but very blurry.Could it be cleared up a bit? The body structure is also very similar tothe second type but it is not the type on the Panzer tunic.