Large collared SS tunic?

[RobertE]

Does anyone else own a SS tunic with an enlarged collar? This one also has heavily padded shoulders. The collar appears to to be the factory one. I've seen collars with more dramatic points, but this one has the entire collar tab surface area expanded.

[RobertE]

pic2

[RobertE]

pic 3

[RobertE]

pic 4

[RobertE]

shoulder padding - it's under the liner

[John Pic]

Uniforms have no set standards when it comes to tailoring. Not everything was worn or obtained as it was out of the Govt. approved factory. Soldiers had all types of alterations done. an entire collar could be removed and replaced with a different on if sodesired and no trace of that change will be visible because superb expert tailoring was used. Sometimes it is noticeable especially if done in the field. Sometimes entire tunics made exactly like the factory issued ones were made by private tailors in France,Austria, Holland,Belgium,and all over the Third Reich. Look at the Heer M36 just sold on the estand made in France..no different than a "factory" issue and complete with stampings.People were contracted to do this.Now here is a word to the wise, if you own an SS tunic and you look hard and long enough to find something wrong with it, I guarantee you, that you will. This goes for all tunics. Unless they are mint out of a German factory you wil find flaws of all kinds or what we as collectors feel are flaws. Granted they may be wartime flaws but they give us grief and paranoia.Oh and if you dont find a flaw I guarantee you that someone else will. That looks like a nice tunic with some alterations done there was no set rule for collar width.

[Donald Abenheim]

Janz richtig

Plainly this piece was tailored, and done so nicely. My Oregonian colleague is spot on. The fetish for standardization and anachronism does us all little good. Germany was more of a decentralized place, and the lack of uniformity in uniforms may confound some, but we have to get over it. I am sure for one's erste Garnitur piece, worn to impress females and peers, such tailoring was very important. Colleague John's point about the search for the flaw also does a great deal to spoil one's enjoyment of these things, as well as collapse our capacity to see the fullness of the truth vs. the empty Diktat of the "textbook," which is, itself, a kind of fake... sapere aude.

[RobertE]

I think we're drifting off base, or at least away from my intention. The basis for my question was not so much to question whether the piece was original, but to see what other collectors had such pieces - specifically, with wide collars. This isn't a witch hunt for thread counts and micro-measurements; just a question as to who else has had much experience with this type of tailored tunic. Most of those we see with manufacturers markings have the standard collar.

Sorry if my question was vague, and I concur with both your statements, certainly. s/f Robert

[Adrian Stevenson]

I love these type of pointed collar tailored blouses Bob owns one which can be seen here:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=124429

Cheers, Ade.

[Luca Ongaro]

Agree with John, soldiers had all types of alterations done. an entire collar could be removed and replaced with a different on.
Very good tunic Robert

[John Pic]

OK well it my answer didnt seem like a "witch hunt" answer to me but why are you so interested in a detail that doesnt matter or make a difference whether something is original or not ? It is a false statement to say most of those with markings have standard collars since most tunics that survived the war were privately tailored pieces kept at home in a closet.Also one does not see that many real SS tunics other than in pictures and examining the Beaver books one can see a wide variety of collar widths on issued tunics.
To answer your question specifically here is a tunic with a wide collar.

[John Pic]

Here is one with a thinner collar.

[RobertE]

Sorry John, no offense was intended. When it comes to variations, there are other reasons than determining originality for asking questions about German militaria. Relative rarity, finding physical examples of wartime photos, and just comparing examples in our collections to others in the community in order to broaden our knowledge base are among them. There's plenty of similiar threads where folks are sharing items to find like examples amongst forum members - sometimes it's nice to see a "brother or sister" piece in a different rank grade or condition.

I thought the thread was moving toward reassuring me that paying undue attention to variations was feeding collector paranoia, with general comments about the folly of such behavior. I was looking for anyone that had a tunic like mine - and folks have posted some good pictures of them and/or links, including you. Thanks!

s/f Robert

[John Pic]

Hi Robert, Not offended just trying to share what I know to add to the zillion other theories existing in this realm of collecting.
Your tunic appears to be a fine and of coarse super rare piece that is highly desireable to any tunic collector.I honestly believe NCO tunics of the SS are far more rare than officer.

[Wessels]

I highly agree with John's statement..."NCO tunics of the Waffen SS are far more rare than officer tunics."