Waffen SS grey visor - opinions

[robs]

Heres another I found on the net....

Sorry about the poor pictures and I hope to get close up ones soon. Whats the opinion so far?

"Field grey wool cap with white piping and black velvet capband. This mid-war example retains the basic matt grey M1936 eagle/swastika and skull badges, along with standard silver chincords. Interior has a mid beige silk lining and is complete with a full celluliod diamond without makers name. Cap shows light combat use, but is free from any moth damage"

[robs]

another

[Donald Abenheim]

Muetzlein, oh Muetzlein...!

These images defy any generalization. In fact, grey SS caps require the most minute examination in hand, granted the stupendous effort that fakers invest in their creation. Surely, the paranoia about them has caused many of us wrongly to damn an authentic piece. Thus, if one is seriously interested in the purchase of such an item, one has to inspect it and seek the counsel of disinterested 3d parties, as well. The cap at hand seems to have the P. Kuepper velvet insert method of Stirndrueckfrei and one should register the fact that P Kuepper made party and SS head gear from the outset. However, these caps are also assembled from authentic caps, and P Kuepper caps can also be found in their number. In my experience, these grey SS caps are usually well used and in tough shape, and same has to be authentic age and wear versus the kind employed by tricksters and fraudsters. Per saldo, you should look at the cap in person and seek reinforcements in doing so.

[BenVK]

This one has been on the Ulric of England's site for a long time now. I very much doubt that it's original, the visor looks way too big for a start. Also, I can only presume that "Ulric" don't like their items too closely scrutinized otherwise they would post large high res photos on their website instead of the piddling little postage stamp size ones that they do now.

[TONY Q.W.]

This one has been on the Ulric of England's site for a long time now. I very much doubt that it's original, the visor looks way too big for a start. Also, I can only presume that "Ulric" don't like their items too closely scrutinized otherwise they would post large high res photos on their website instead of the piddling little postage stamp size ones that they do now.

[jotuntroll]

it has been sold for a time ago...

[Panzergrenadiere71]

This one has been on the Ulric of England's site for a long time now. I very much doubt that it's original, the visor looks way too big for a start. Also, I can only presume that "Ulric" don't like their items too closely scrutinized otherwise they would post large high res photos on their website instead of the piddling little postage stamp size ones that they do now.

The WSS sidecap that I've posted some time ago came from Ulric......

[Antiquefrog]

I would concur with Dr. Abenheim; these W-SS caps require careful in-hand examination by an expert, of which he is one of the best. I would also note the following: 1) Ulrich has not been a major dealer on the scene for many years; 2) he has many goofy caps on his site which have remained unsold for a long time; 3) this particular cap has a most suspicious black liner between the inside and outside cap components, often found in Janke and other reproductions; 4) The cap, in apparently quite nice condition, is available at the same price as several EM's on more reputable sites, quite a bargain - close inspection, with guaranteed return privileges, is recommended - and I might add, back-and-forth insured postage to the UK is most expensive indeed!!

[NTZ]

A question to some of the more seasoned collectors. In some of the Latvian fakes I have seen out there the top of the lining has what I call the charcoal look. The lining looks like charcoal or ashes were used to rub in the lining to give it an aged appearance. It makes for a very unnatural looking wear pattern. Does anyone else feel this piece exhibits that trait? Personally I would steer clear of any visor with that look to the lining. Has anyone seen any authentic pieces that have naturally aged giving it a similar look? Here is a photo of a classic Latvian job to show what I mean.

[Donald Abenheim]

Argwohn u. List

I own an Olympia Infantry cap of bomb proof provenance (ex-leading Bay Area collector who was in the HJ and WSS) and its lining is not as worn as this piece, but it is essentially identical in key aspects. Are the Latvians using this marque? If so, this is an excellent fake. A well known Munich faker of the classical era used: cigar ash, bee's wax and urine to age pieces. In the Czech Republic, the locals in the Sudetenland are reputed to wear the caps around to age them. Much of it is likely all old wives tales, actually.

[DonC]

It will be sad if the Latvian specials start to come out with believable maker ettiquettes now. The old-time Peküro and Erel marking attempts in single colors were easy to spot. That Olympia logo looks very good - perhaps the liner was slipped in to a Latvia Special... I assume the charcoal is used to give that "mildew-y" look sometimes seen in originals, but many of the fakers just can't get the subtleties of true age and wear, if you know what to look for.

Don

[NTZ]

The “Olympia” logo has been turning up a lot lately on Latvians. Mostly the rhomboid style. From what I remember on this one, it was being offered for 200Euros, just a bit under market I would say. This was an Infantry Army and not SS. I am going off memory but I believe the visor showing no cross-hatching. The thing that stuck out to me on the piece I just posted was the fact that the diamond seems to be stitched in with at least two rows of stitching if not three. If you look outside of the diamond you will also notice what appears to be additional stitch holes in the lining. Donald, did your example have multiple rows of stitching on the diamond? Possibly an original diamond stitched into a fake visor?

[Donald Abenheim]

The “Olympia” logo has been turning up a lot lately on Latvians. Mostly the rhomboid style. From what I remember on this one, it was being offered for 200Euros, just a bit under market I would say. This was an Infantry Army and not SS. I am going off memory but I believe the visor showing no cross-hatching. The thing that stuck out to me on the piece I just posted was the fact that the diamond seems to be stitched in with at least two rows of stitching if not three. If you look outside of the diamond you will also notice what appears to be additional stitch holes in the lining. Donald, did your example have multiple rows of stitching on the diamond? Possibly an original diamond stitched into a fake visor?

My cap has double stitching, which I have seen on other caps of this kind, i.e. authentic ones. This is a rare maker, actually. The Wilkins book have empowered the fakers to new feats, but there you have it.