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**Fritz** · 10-15-2005, 05:02 AM

So far I have not seen an camo item made for reenactment that was 100% like the originals

...that means you will need to accept an item that is not 100% or you will need to buy an original or a super fake for the price of an original. These super fakes are not meant for the reenactor market....But only to fool collectors that are willing to pay the full price...not just 5% of what an original costs...That's not "worth" the work and the materials the faker needs to produce a (near) identical item...

Just my thoughts...

Cheers

Fritz

**Scott A. Hess** · 10-15-2005, 05:11 AM

Hello Fritz..do you have any pics of the "superfakes" in the dot pattern..pants..wrapper.M43 to post? Would love to see them!

**Scott A. Hess** · 10-15-2005, 05:21 AM

Looking at 1944 the dot stuff is incorporating something new into the mix..but the colors from the photo look totally off..as does the weave..which is very obvious set near the real deal...I'd still like to see the super fake! They have definitely at first blush raised the bar on the Herman Meyer caps from the look of the photos. Those will fool aged and tucked away for a while.

Originally posted by Basil

The Janke dot pattern is very good, but there has been a recent run which seems pretty good from the photos and is being sold by Drew Zigo at www.1944militaria.com

On the general subject of repro makers, the honest ones do mark their products as repros. Lost Battalions, which makes the most accurate repros, stamp their products 'Falschmeister Augsburg' whilst 'At the Front' use a range of different stamps, all of which are described on their website. Of course, these stamps can be removed but at least they make the effort.

**Fritz** · 10-15-2005, 05:59 AM

No, these are very, very good. If they were not they would be fakes...not "super" fakes. Only the producer of these can send you pics.

It's said that they use old dot pattern fabric stocks to produce these. Some quite large stocks of dot pattern have survived the war and some of this material felt into the wrong hands. Using the original fabric, with correct tools, buttons, threads etc. and combine that with a very good knowledge and you will gain "very correct" items...

If I remember correctly I think that M. Beaver also described these surviving stocks in one of his great books.

Also, some people say that, beside other things, a majority of the ss jump smocks, that are now around, were made from such stocks. True? I don't know....

but I would be very, very careful .

I "try" to collect german ww2 camo with one exception: DOT pattern items, I once bought a pair of dot tank trousers for very little money but this is it. I would not spend the today asked sums on an dot item as this would be too risky for me...Still, I am sure that there are of course many authentic dot items out there....But the risk is too high, at least for me....

Also, the super fakes are not only related to dot items...There are very mean helmet covers etc. and even zeltbahnen (these not too super, but still very good) out there...Much, much better than what the reenactor gets from the common supplier....

Better not to think about it too much....

Cheers

Fritz

**Guy** · 10-20-2005, 05:38 AM

To answer your question. The lining is completely wrong. Real ones didn't have any liner at all, no belt ramps either. Fritz is right! The majority of commercial repros are not a point of departure for the hard core faker. Their wares are simply not authentic enough. It is the low volume stuff one needs to be afraid of.

Hi Fritz, I agree, Erbsenmuster items have become very tricky in the last few years but if you own original examples and study them you shouldn't make a mistake. One answer is to get a very powerfull loup 20 or 30 times magnification and view a thread sample through this (inside the pockets is the easiest place to find a loose thread). What is invisible to the naked eye is the amount of re pulped crap that makes up the fillaments. Repros are nearly all pure linnen and dont contain anything else.

As regards surplus Erbsenmuster material being made into fakes; Most of this went on in the 60's 70's and 80's and the detailing is usually wrong. I have seen a couple of superb Panzer Wraps made from original material but as the fakers didn't have an original garment to copy they made mistakes. Button cuffs being the most glaringly obvious.

Whilst very nice from an artistic "coffee table" approach I'me afraid that Mr Beavers books on camouflage are of very little practical use when it comes to determining the originality of a piece.

Yours, Guy.

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