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**galizien41** · 10-04-2005, 07:45 PM

Thanks for your responses, I really like the grouping. I wish I had more funds to begin with, there are 10 TK tabs in the grouping , and I only had the cash for the few.

**leib grenadier** · 10-04-2005, 08:47 PM

Originally posted by Donald Abenheim

For those who can read German, the work of Kaienburg on the economic enterprises of the SS contains an exhaustive and complete account of the role that Dachau played in the system of supply and textile operations of the SS from about 1934 until war's end. As colleague Toncar has pointed out, the material and materiel on hand when the US troops arrived was considerably more than merely that of an even large supply depot. Rather, the SS economic enterprise infrastructure at Dachau was hub of the Gulag (to borrow a phrase) Archipelago of SS textile and other operations that had spread over occuppied Europe. The account in Kaienburg is the most complete I have ever read, and quite depressing too, when one considers the wretched conditions whereby this regalia was manufactured and stored. The US issuance document is pleasing.

Herr Abenheim:

I sent you a thank-you gift today, in the form of an Allgemeine cufftitle. You should have it in a day or two. many thanks for your generous help!

Bruce Herman
grenadiermilitaryantiques.com

**nutmeg** · 10-04-2005, 08:47 PM

These are really nice tabs. Grenadier militaria has the last few of them from this same grouping up on his website now if anyone wants one. I just bought one, not sure how many are left, there were only 10 so he can't have more then 6 at most.

**nutmeg** · 10-04-2005, 08:48 PM

Here is the link:

http://web.iwebcenters.com/grenadiermilitaryantiques/productCat46534.ctlg

**Donald Abenheim** · 10-04-2005, 10:04 PM

Originally posted by leib grenadier

Herr Abenheim:

I sent you a thank-you gift today, in the form of an Allgemeine cufftitle. You should have it in a day or two. many thanks for your generous help!

Bruce Herman
grenadiermilitaryantiques.com

Dear Colleague, many thanks and viel Sammlerglueck! Fetid black woolens ueber alles!

**leib grenadier** · 10-05-2005, 12:37 AM

Originally posted by Donald Abenheim

Dear Colleague, many thanks and viel Sammlerglueck! Fetid black woolens ueber alles!

Gern geschehen!

BH

**Ian Hulley** · 10-05-2005, 03:26 AM

Originally posted by johannes post

that so called dachau pieces are that all kind of ss insignes ore only armschilds and collartabs ?
and have the produced for the heer,luftwaffe.
very interresting threat thanks.

regards johan

See here :- http://www.wehrmacht-awards.net/foru...achau+Insignia there is an in-depth debate on this subject,including photographs (some now sadly removed) of a typical haul of 'Dachau find' insignia. From memory the only non-SS insignia were Polizei arm eagles,bearing in mind this was an SS-Bekleidungswerke rather than a Wehrmacht depot.

Hope this helps,Ian.

**johannes post** · 10-05-2005, 10:25 AM

thanks ian

this is a very interresting subject.
dachau items looks always so new too me.
so every info about these items are most welcome

kr johan

Originally posted by Ian Hulley

See here :- http://www.wehrmacht-awards.net/foru...achau+Insignia there is an in-depth debate on this subject,including photographs (some now sadly removed) of a typical haul of 'Dachau find' insignia. From memory the only non-SS insignia were Polizei arm eagles,bearing in mind this was an SS-Bekleidungswerke rather than a Wehrmacht depot.

Hope this helps,Ian.

**Sal Williams** · 03-05-2008, 11:00 PM

I am not understanding something I think. How does this validate the vast amount of "Dachau" stuff? Robin changed his mind so there must be something to this, but I don't get it. It looks like one accounted for with paperwork item/group of items. I don't think the stance was ever that there were NO items at Dachau , but rather the validity of the huge quantities alleged to be found there..

This is a serious question, not an implication of disbelief or belief. I defer to those who study these subjects, not at all my field. Really very curious is all.

Thanks much, Sal

**Ron Weinand** · 03-06-2008, 08:12 AM

Vet Acquisitions

As I have stated for years, I have encountered SEVERAL US veterans who were at Dachau and brought back lots of insignias and other cloth items IN LARGE QUANTITIES. In my motel buys and, more recently, my joint purchases of veteran souviners with Tom Johnson, it is NOT unusual to encounter such finds. There were vast quantities of SS cloth insignias available to the veterans and they DID avail themselves to the stores at Dachau.
Not to say that there weren't lots of reproduction insignias made since the end of the war, but if you know your source and BELIEVE it their reputation and honesty (sometime hard to do and accept), you still can find original insignia that you can live with without question.
Ron Weinand

**Sal Williams** · 03-06-2008, 11:39 PM

Originally posted by Ron Weinand View Post

As I have stated for years, I have encountered SEVERAL US veterans who were at Dachau and brought back lots of insignias and other cloth items IN LARGE QUANTITIES. In my motel buys and, more recently, my joint purchases of veteran souviners with Tom Johnson, it is NOT unusual to encounter such finds. There were vast quantities of SS cloth insignias available to the veterans and they DID avail themselves to the stores at Dachau.
Not to say that there weren't lots of reproduction insignias made since the end of the war, but if you know your source and BELIEVE it their reputation and honesty (sometime hard to do and accept), you still can find original insignia that you can live with without question.
Ron Weinand

Hi Ron, that doesn't really answer the question as to why this specific document has proved the quantities alleged to be in Dachau though. Enough for Robin to have changed his firm conviction even. Was there more posted in this thread before? Pics of more paperwork or something? I am not discounting your experiences, but the debate raged before when the motel buys of a number of prominent collectors were already known. For some that was not proof positive, but this seems to be and that is what my question is. I see that the name has been deleted from the document for security against fakers, so perhaps there was also more? ?Did I get here too late and miss something?

Best, Sal

**nutmeg** · 03-07-2008, 04:38 AM

Dachau groupings from vets turn up from time to time. I've had two in the last couple of years. Collectors who don't buy much from vets have a harder time believing it, but most long time estate buyers have encountered some. Here is one from lat year from a vet's widow. The Dachau stuff combined with other stuff the vet picked up at various places. Sold everything I didn't want, so don't get excited guys!

Attached Files

ss grouping small format 6 22 07.jpg (164.0 KB, 360 views)

**sgstandard** · 03-07-2008, 12:08 PM

Dachau

Another indicator of validation is the fact that certain types of items, such as Totenkopf collar tabs for example, are known to have come from Dachau. Despite the relative abundance of these Dachau items, they are still recognized as being original by experienced collectors. The experts on this forum could arguably be called the best in the world, and they generally concur on the authenticy of known items.

**Sal Williams** · 03-07-2008, 08:56 PM

Yes, but none of this answers my question as to why this one paper put the debate to rest. I am aware of all the other reasons they are considered valid, but there were still disbelievers up to the point of this specific thread. My question is why is this one paper so significant (I am aware that it is significant, just not how it put the debate to rest).

Best, Sal

**nutmeg** · 03-08-2008, 02:31 AM

Originally posted by Sal Williams View Post

Yes, but none of this answers my question as to why this one paper put the debate to rest. I am aware of all the other reasons they are considered valid, but there were still disbelievers up to the point of this specific thread. My question is why is this one paper so significant (I am aware that it is significant, just not how it put the debate to rest).

Best, Sal

Sal.

There will always be disbelievers in everything (man on the moon). The paper shows that surplus insignia was actually taken from Dachau. It merely validates something commonly known for decades to those who won't believe anything unless it's in print. Most GIs did not bother getting permission slips (in fact less got them then did)for minor pocketable flotsum like insignia, it was usually for larger items, so this is more unusual. Frankly, the revisionist debate about this is fairly recent, mostly brought about by either newer collectors or those collectors not used to buying directly from vets.

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