AH Bullion Cuff Title for Review

[panzer1432]

A C130 just dropped you a pallet of $$$$$$$

[sutka]

similar cuff from emedals OBERBYERN was vetted here with similar stitching and backing

[derek]

The date of the RZM tags is not inconsistent when you consider one of the only photographs of the title being worn was taken in December of 1935 and the illustration of the band in the 1936 Organisation book.
This would suggest that the cuff band was not the first pattern as described in some books but rather a prototype from 1935/36 that was never adopted.

[Christian J]

Would the buyer tell us (or would anyone like to hazard a guess) as the the value of one of these?

5k, maybe the double? Bet the PMs are hot and heavy.

[TomH]

Hi Christian - I would think you could easily treble that for this rare, rare band.

Looking at the few reference books that include this band we have:

An RZM version attributed to Dave Delich, featured in the Angolia insignia book, the Williamson Cuffband book and the Bando insignia book.

A HE version attributed to Jim Toncar, featured in the Williamson Cuffband book and the Bando insignia book.

I know of two other (HE) in high end private collections - this would seem to indicate the RZM version is even rarer.

Andrew Mollo in his Uniforms of the SS volume says "an example of this....did exist but is thought to have been an unofficial version, privately made for the wearer"

Williamson calls this, the first pattern, issued some time in September 1933 and notes that it featured in the 1936 Organisationbuch der NSDAP

Angolia notes that the Adolf Hitler cuffband was authorised May 5th 1934 and refers to this pattern as the first version. (The Sutterlin script was effective from Oct 1934).

Bando asserts that this pattern was introduced around the time of Hitler's ascent to power in 1933 (which seems a little early) and says " Surviving examples of such early insignia are now so rare as to be almost mythic to collectors, who wonder if they actually existed".

I would think this indicates a high probability that these were either private purchase or prototypes as Derek mentions. It would be great to see one or more of the known examples - particularly to compare the obverse of the band.

Tom

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

sorry i was on holidays and basically unable to post (or so) on the WAF.

Here we go, scan of page 178, courtesy of the highly recommended Bible "German Military Cuffbands 1784-Present" by Gordon Williamson & Thomas McGuirl.

See You

Vince

[derek]

Thanks to Tom and Vince for the published material.
But to clarify some of the mistakes that various books often repeat:
"Angolia notes that the Adolf Hitler cuffband was authorised May 5th 1934".
That particular order for the rest of the Politischbereitschaften units actually states that the Leibstandarte retains their established version of the title.
The well known photo of the band Williamson/McGuirl mention was taken in December 1935 not 1937.
As to the actual dates of introduction given in the other books Tom mentions.
The cuff title name was awarded to the Adolf Hitler Standarte at the September 1933 "Parteitag des Sieges". During the march past of the Standarte with their new standard it appears that the sleeves of the men have yet to have the new title added, but the attached photo was taken at the very next event Hitler attended in September/October 1933 and clearly shows that the new band was the Sutterlin pattern in the large size that almost filled the borders.
As I mentioned before, there is no doubt in my mind that the Gothic pattern Adolf Hitler was proposed in 1935/36 by the SS-Hauptamt to align the style of the band with Deutschland, Germania and the rest of the SS-VT components in Gothic letters but was obviously rejected, very probably by Dietrich using his influence with Hitler.
Look at the tags, the Adolf Hitler band was embroidered by #459, the same embroiderer who created the famous Burmeister muster piece for the Gothic lettering with the same date (1936).
Couple that with the photographic evidence and the Organisationsbuch 1936 illustration and it seems absolutely impossible to believe that this is the first pattern cuff title.

Adolf.jpg

[TomH]

Impressive and compelling Derek - thank you.

Can we conclude therefore, that Angolia is also incorrect in his assertion that the Sutterlin script was effective October 1934?

Thanks

Tom

[Robert H]

Derek, as always outstanding knowledge and research

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

for the sake of the discussion, i'm reposting the picture of the famous Burmeister ABC Standardmuster cufftitle, pictures courtesy of Ulric Woodhams also highly recommended book "Collecting Third Reich SS & Political Cuffbands - Volume 2".

See You

Vince

[derek]

Tom,
"Can we conclude therefore, that Angolia is also incorrect in his assertion that the Sutterlin script was effective October 1934?"
The October 1934 order that I presume Angolia refers to (given that no footnotes are provided) only specified the general regulations for piping and embroidery for insignia, i.e. the change to black and silver collar piping from white. As shown above the Sutterlin script was effective as of September 1933.