bastogne-dot fj -smock sold?????

[JOHN VD HEIJDEN]

Three days ago I paid a visit to bastogne
The museum of bastogne has improved IMO in a good way
I had mine digit-camera with me to take some pictures of this smock,but it was not there anymore

Does it have been sold or trade for something else

[Bobwirtz]

Could be that the museum rotated it out of the display. I know that artifacts left under those strong lights after many years suffer from it and some museums will rotate them out of the display. Hopefully that is what happened to it. Of course museums also swap and trade with other museums for stuff they want.

[JOHN VD HEIJDEN]

re

Could be that the museum rotated it out of the display. I know that artifacts left under those strong lights after many years suffer from it and some museums will rotate them out of the display. Hopefully that is what happened to it. Of course museums also swap and trade with other museums for stuff they want.

No Bob ,just have some new information it is been sold to a private collector
In europe

[Bobwirtz]

John: Is that museum privately owned? If so, I guess they can pretty much do what they want with the inventory. I was speaking of my personal experience with the U.S. Army Museum System. I remember that the Fort George G. Meade Museum in Maryland had a beautiful Waffen-SS Untersturmfuhrer of Panzer M44 dot camouflaged pattern panzer jacket with slip on Army panzer shoulder boards with gilt metal LAH ciphers plus an officer black panzer M1943 field cap. These were donated by the veteran who captured them during the Battle of the Bulge. The museum had these on display for many years and then I noticed a couple of years ago that they were no longer on display. I asked about the artifacts and the exhibit technician told me that they put it into a dark storage area for restoration because the bright and harsh exhibit lighting was adversely affecting them. So they were rotated out of the display for protection purposes. I thought that maybe if something disappeared out of a museum exhibit that they too might have been protecting it or restoring it. But I guess not - they sold it to a private collector. You never know when a museum is going to do something like that. That is one reason why I will NEVER donate anything out of my collection to a museum. I don't trust them. It's much better remaining in the collecting community where it is truly appreciated.

Bob

[Arran]

Hi John and Bob,
I've both purchased and traded for items out of many museums in North America, and Its entirely possible that the panzer set you mention, Bob, was actually sold off (the Meade Museum would have had low UV lighting or UV reisitant display cases for some time now, and putting items like this into 'dark storage' for restoration purposes just doesn't make sense). Sometimes items are sold by museum employees, although the legitimate process is called "de-accessioning", and requires the approval of the curator, museum director, or board of directors if the museum has one. Its really just a small bit of paperwork. I've even had curators tell me to dispose of items discreetly because the original donor was still around! I fully agree with the concept of keeping artifacts in the hands of private collectors as much as possible...

Cheers,
Arran.

[Marc verstraete]

Manny (Militaria focused) museum regarding the WWII and WWI period, (not to say most of them) in Belgium and France are privately own. The owner(s) have no problem swapping a piece if they can obtain another piece that is more valuable for their display. Somme pieces will never be sold but others, who are not necessarily "in context" of the museum displays or location. For example a USMC camo pacific tunic in a Battle of the bulge museum can be bought or traded. Even if this can take some time. I obtained from museums in Belgium and France Many excellent items by giving in trade items who where more appropriated for display. I know for a fact that if you offer just enough money to one of these museums, they will sell you the item! Most of the owners are collectors…. Keep this in mind….

I remember a day (it was about 22 years ago) I was very good friend with a private museum owner, I used to be at his museum almost every weekend. One day an American guy walks in and absolutely wanted a .50 US (deactivated) machine gun that was displayed on a terrestrial light AA mound. He put money (1000 Belgium franks bills) on the counter until the owner says OK.

You have to remember that money made with the people visiting the museum is mostly coming from tourists and not militaria collectors. "Regular" people who know nothing about the value of these objects will not care if they see one or 5 """SS-Panzer-camo-uniforms-with-gold-cross who-belonged-to-Pieper""" They are happy with lots of variation and good explanations.

So, your tunic is probably hanging in a private collection at this time…..

Marc

[Pieter Verbruggen]

The FG smock is sold.

Pieter.

[Bobwirtz]

Arran: The Army Museum System used to (in days before 1980 or so) be infamous for letting great stuff out. It was before the System hired and retained 'professional' curators and museum experts. Most of the people working in the museums back then were the company foul-ups and sent there to get rid of them. I remember hearing about one musuem where they had one of the finest collections of WWI U.S. Army Uniforms. The Captain they put in charge of it was a collector and had excellent reproductions made of the best ones and then substituted them for the museum's real thing. But now the Army Museum System maintains a much more stringent control on their inventories and people. If you're a collector, you don't work in their museum system if I'm not mistaken. So if this Waffen-SS camouflaged panzer jacket and cap have been removed from the display, it may have gone back to a central repository, or even to another Army museum. But I guarantee you it has not been sold to a private collector. Otherwise I would have bought it from them the day it came walking into the Meade Museum some 20 years ago.

Kind regards,
Bob

[B. N. Singer]

I remember being told a story by the well known George Petersen of how he made a trade, decades ago, with the 101st airborne museum for a single decal camouflage para helmet with the original netting. The helmet had been donated to the museum by a 101st veteran yet the museum still thought it perfectly proper to negotiate a trade with it.

I believe I even have a picture of the pot somewhere!
B. N. Singer

[JOHN VD HEIJDEN]

re

The FG smock is sold.

Pieter.

Yep I first tought ,it was sold to the weisse engel from belgium

I,m waiting for an invation to have a little peak in the post-war wolfschanze

[Panzer]

I was totally disgusted with the Museum at Bastogne....there were fake items on display, cobwebs on the mannequins and no regard for conservation whatsoever. When I asked in the bookshop if they had a curator I was told nobody had done this really since the original owner Arens had passed away. I was told I was speaking to the manager, a woman......and I told her things were wrong, items badly kept and badly displayed. She asked with a slightly indignant tone "what makes you qualified to say this?", and then I had one of those funny moments because I was able to point at arm's reach to a copy of one of my books on their books stand and say "I wrote this book! and I AM qulkaified!"......ok...good for the ego but it made the point! I was dissapointed I paid to see such rubbish.


I always reccomend people go to the fabulous Deikirch museum or to La Gleize, where at least they have some idea and give a damm! Rotation? Conservation? At Bastogne they wouldn't know what that means!

Cheers, Wade K.

[Steiner]

The FG smock is sold.

Pieter.

It's a shame that from now on only few people can watch the smock instead of all those who visit the museum......

[Marc verstraete]

It's a shame that from now on only few people can watch the smock instead of all those who visit the museum......

Singing: Money, money, money....... it a rich men’s world…

[Panzer]

As far as I could see they did not deserve to have it, and it was slowly being destroyed anyhow! So maybe it is better and safer in the hands of someone who will appreciate it.


I agree completely that these items should be where generations can see them....and understand the history.....but the title "museum" does not automatically qualify an institution to do whatever they want with historical items. There are good museums and lousy ones. This one would have to lift it's game before I would consider it the former!
Cheers, wade K.

[Texasuberalles]

But I guess not - they sold it to a private collector. You never know when a museum is going to do something like that. That is one reason why I will NEVER donate anything out of my collection to a museum. I don't trust them. It's much better remaining in the collecting community where it is truly appreciated.

Bob

Well, isn't that where it's now gone; into the collecting community where someone who knows what it is and will not allow it to further degrade?