SS Visors Busting the Roof...

[Johann Anton]

Hi all,

I'm a collector of civil and political uniforms. Over the last 5 years, I've been fortunate enough to have my hands on many peices of cloth, uniforms, visors ect, of most of these organizations. Not all, but a good broad cross section. What really blows me away, is how the value of SS visors has busted through the roof. Just three short years ago, I could have, (and in retrospect should have), purchased an SS Allg Mann visor for about $2,200 to $2,300. And that would have been from any number of sources. Today, I can't seem to find one for under $5K. Have these really more than doubled in the last three years? My take is that with the power of these forums, many fakes have been exposed, Proving how few "REAL" ones there really are out there. But still, I'm willing, and have numerous times, spent over 5K for a nice complete ensemble, or a well preserved "ranking" tunic, but I just can't bring myself to go 5K for a visor. How do you guys feel about it?

[picone]

That about sums it up. Can you find a good one today? I can't. Would I spend $5,000.00 if I knew it to be 110% real? Yes, If I had the money. Plenty of fakes to be had though.

[picone]

I mean, lets be realistic here. How many of these are really out there? 200-300?
Is 5,000 really alot of money theses days? I don't know about you but I know I spend 1000.00 a month on food and I don't get any return on that money (so to speak)

[Sayle F]

There are alot more than 200-300 out there, Geez, Donald Abenheim has that many

[Donald Abenheim]

Allgemeine SS caps

An authentic early one of these sold at an auction recently for 1700 dollars. The prestige sites have raised the prices of these caps, but enlisted black OR/NCO caps are not as rare as other pieces of SS headgear. I cannot account for prices. I first bought a Mueller Sonderanfertigung OR/NCO cap in 1972 for USD125, when army Tellermuetzen cost 25 dollars. I assume that the demand simply outstrips supply. The key is to find one of these caps off the beaten track, rather from the ground zero elite, premiere websites. The virture of certain of the dealers here, though, is they 99.9% of the time have authentic pieces.

[Johann Anton]

Hmmm, 1700 is the best price I've seen, perhaps ever. (5 or so years). Maybe I'm outta touch with reality today, but I'm statistically in the top % of earners, and yes, 5K is still a lot of $ to me. As Donald said, I suppose the key is to watch your sources tenaciously...

[Donald Abenheim]

Quo vadis?

Hmmm, 1700 is the best price I've seen, perhaps ever. (5 or so years). Maybe I'm outta touch with reality today, but I'm statistically in the top % of earners, and yes, 5K is still a lot of $ to me. As Donald said, I suppose the key is to watch your sources tenaciously...

Maederer has one on his site for this princely sum. He always has nice SS caps, albeit expensive. He also has a nice Waffen SS cap from an Affenrucksack, too, which I would buy if I was so inclined but I have other programming/budgeting priorities at the moment. In 1998, black enlisted caps were 1200 USD, so go figure. These caps are not rare, compared, say, to the grey officer's cap on Maederer's site. It seems that certain of the top end eastern dealers have a cartel, and they raise prices together. They can do so with ease, it seems, because of the global market, as well as the more precise powers of discernment on the part of collectors who are reading what we write for them. I do not have a degree in economics, but the transformation of this kind of thing via the Internet, the Euro and whatnot has been a powerful force overall. I do think that the garden variety Kammerexemplar enlisted cap of the era 1938/9 survived the war in quantity and these are still around, but have been bid up. The early cap with the melton cap cover, added badges of the era 1935/6 and a white tag of the 2d pattern which went in an antique auction for 1700 diverges from this. I personally have a weakness for the earlier caps, that is those before about 1937/8, and these endure in # that I would have not thought possible, either. However, the "textbook" black OR/NCO (as made in the era 1937-1940 or so) cap is not especially rare. There are surely thousands of them in existence, not the small # speculated upon above. Officers caps are somewhat another proposition, and the grey caps are more rare. Sapere aude!

[Johann Anton]

Thanks Donald, also see Whammond, who is one of my favorites, for an early jawless Mann, again 5K. I understand that these are offered consignment, yet never the less....

[Donald Abenheim]

There are alot more than 200-300 out there, Geez, Donald Abenheim has that many

Kevin has more than I do, and he can find them in the most remarkable places, actually. Put in your order with him!

[picone]

IMO thousands of them would I think be a stretch. If the internet is so prominent in today's market (which I most certainly believe) then I should think there would be more than one for sale currently on the web.

I currently have the 2nd pattern white tag example and wouldn't even consider parting with it for less than 4,500.

Notable sites such as Kai Winklers website has a few examples which I wouldn't even consider, but that being said where are they all. Are they being hoarded? Just my 2 cents

from a humble non - association member

[Johann Anton]

I've already taken your advice, which you offered several weeks ago. KFin is helping me with a Waffen project. .............In fact, my first. Breaking new ground...Exciting...

[Donald Abenheim]

Thanks Donald, also see Whammond, who is one of my favorites, for an early jawless Mann, again 5K. I understand that these are offered consignment, yet never the less....

I have seen this piece. I bought a similar cap from a colleague in better condition minus the Husarentotenkopf a couple of years ago for USD2800. The Whammond cap, though, is exactly this later 1938/9 type of cap (badge notwithstanding) and he is part of the cartel, but why not? Quality and authenticity trump the dreck. His material is top shelf (see the SSVT Waffenrock) and vetted by the leading lights of the field, so one can buy it with confidence. If you follow all of this, there is a kind of Auslese as the Germans say, of the good and the bad, and the good may charge their high prices because there are those willing to buy it. Elsewhere I referred to the pawn shops in the Tenderloin and south of the slot in San Francisco in the late-1940s and early-1950s, where this stuff was once found. The market for this has changed so utterly beyond my comprehension.

[Johann Anton]

The Golden Rule: He who has the gold,.......makes the rules....

[Donald Abenheim]

I've already taken your advice, which you offered several weeks ago. KFin is helping me with a Waffen project. .............In fact, my first. Breaking new ground...Exciting...

Did you ever buy the black enlisted cap from the Bodensee Standarte with the white tag that went from ebay to Stezelberger and then to this other site? That was a Sonderanfertigung piece with the chap's name (Hagemaier or the like?) and a rare white tag of the era 1935 or 1936. It would have gone with your Bodensee uniform. Did we not correspond about it? When you tire of the latter, I shall gladly offer it a new home among my fetid woolens. When in doubt, cousin Kevin has magical powers in divining all sorts of SS regalia in the Southland together with his colleague Bruce Hermann.

[Johann Anton]

Ah ha, you remember well. I inquired, but never followed up. He scared me off with a trick question...."How much are you willing to go?"...... currently working this other direction.