SS M43 Cap with green embroidered insignia

[billbert]

Also no one noticed the buttons are the reverse side of what is considered the norm.......

[RoyA]

Robert,

Here is mine for comparison....

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.net/foru...ad.php?t=66954

Roy

[RobertE]

Roy,
Thanks, that was instructive. Looks like the wool trapezoid was used with the all-wool bill, not just the cardboard type, based on your hat.

[SJP]

This photo dates from the late 80's.Though the photo isn't very good,this isn't a "variation".Bob H. posted some true variations."Dachau type" M43's have been faked for many years.That type is no guarantee of being original.Cheers Steve

[Perry Floyd]

Yes Dachau M43's have been faked many years, I would agree and is why I would never make such a statement as "if it's on a Dachau M43 its original".

In areas like this no one knows for sure, it's allways evident in the careful language(also notice the other M43 thread). Because of this, I'm a very conservative collector, I want the slightest room for error. Of couse there are allways 100% real variations. However the more you stray away from the textbook the higher the danger level in a allready talented highly faked market. D. Delich told me via e-mail once that it's reached a point a cap such as a SS M43 has to have a pedigree now.
This is my opinion and what I would do. You can use this or throw it out the window. In the end the piece has to leave you without any doubt.

[RobertE]

Pedigree? Hmm. There seems to be a inner group that validate each other finds, and place high value on what dealer it came from. Crap, says I. It's 70 years after these things were made, and false vets, scammers, material artists, and other profiteers have had a good go at our hobby. We're not museum curators, and documentation runs from complete to completly fabricated. I see a good number of questionable pieces on everyone's sites from time to time.

Anyone who disregards the educated collector community advice is a fool, and I appreciate everyone's advice. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has suffered through collections of largely "variations", and it makes you want to take an immediate shower - collectors love to delude themselves.

My read: the hat is good. The eagle is original, and original to the hat. I like it, and am comfortable with it. Thanks to all contributing commentors, especially the eagle/trap authorities.

[BenVK]

My read: the hat is good. The eagle is original, and original to the hat. I like it, and am comfortable with it.

That's all that really matters at the end of day...well said Robert

[John-M]

Here is mine.

View of the cap. It is late war italian style wool, typical of M43 WSS tunics - like the one shown at the top of the SS Uniforms and Insignia forum.

[John-M]

Close up of trap.

Here is the trap. It is hard to make out the threads, but I think it looks very close to Robert's.

[RobertE]

Here is the trap. It is hard to make out the threads, but I think it looks very close to Robert's.

John, they are very similiar. Thank you very much for posting it. Does yours have the all-wool bill and herringbone liner? I'm sure the shades are diferent; the Italien wool is much greyer then mine. Out of curiosity, does the trap match the shade of your hat very closely - or exactly? s/f Robert

[John-M]

Inside.

The cap has a card board bill (looks to be black cardboard based on a small tear on the underside of bill). The shade is a near match to the shoddy wool. The interier is hbt type material - not identical to hbt typical to tunics. It is a finer grade of some sort.

The interior is fragile and has some kind of insect or small animal damage I think. There is also soiling, which I rised out years ago with warm water. The wool on the top of the cap (from the inside out) is also moth bear and thin. While the cap is in excellent condition on the outside and appears unissued, I think the cap was poorly stored for many years upside down. Something nested inside I think .... Enhanced the image slightly to make up for poor light.

I have a couple of original WSS M43 tunics and the material looks like it came off the same bolt of the cloth. The thread passes burn tests. While the hbt material is a variant, I do feel comfortable with this cap.

[RobertE]

[QUOTE=John-M]The cap has a card board bill (looks to be black cardboard based on a small tear on the underside of bill). The shade is a near match to the shoddy wool. The interier is hbt type material - not identical to hbt typical to tunics. It is a finer grade of some sort.

Thanks John. Mine also has a herringbone pattern different than that used in liners, and a cardboard bill (also detectable through the liner holes) like a standard M43. I'll take a close up and we can compare - these don't appear to be the Dachau breed but do sport the embroidered trap (non-pirate).

I'm not sure what nested in yours, but the material in mine is low grade and seems to be coming apart - it's unusually fragile.

[RobertE]

Here's a head-on of the trap -

[90th Light]

Bring this one to the top for Robert Coutts, very interesting to say the least,

Chris

[RobertCOUTTS]

M43 ss

Chris,
well I now own this cap I was going to remove the insignia but I will hold my horses. A number of people here whose opinions I value have given it the no go. That said Ive handled it and liked it and showed it to a dealer here he liked it but baulked at the black light test as it glowed in a few spots, he asked if Id washed it. I dont hold with blacklights but John said hed rinsed it to remove soiling so maybe the dealer was on to something. I wasnt trying to sell it merely get an opinion. Now Im more confused. I didnt pay that much so I didnt lose much .
cheers Robert