DAK 10x50 Binoculars (help)

[claszIII]

There are many threads on the speculated immediate post war production of this type glass by Hensoldt, on this forum. I believe most all were made at least largely from left over parts and the different models were made up in multiple batches each with their own serial ranges to each batch. Some very early ones like made the first days or weeks after post war assembly began seem to be marked bmj and soon there after Hensoldt name appears instead. IMO it could be very likely that the very first assembled then had no number and shortly thereafter a new number convention was adopted. The care strikes me as much later and purely civilian but I guess could also be pre war civilian.

Thank you for that info. Was there very many of these produced? What is the value of an early post war set?

[phild]

I can not answer either question with any degree of confidence. My best guess is that there were a few thousand sets of each of the wartime Hensoldt wartime models made or assembled in the early post war period. We see a total serial number range of close to 40,000 with a number of 6x30 (should be most common) 7x56 and 10x50 and maybe other powers that I am missing.

A lot of the parts and materials used in the cases and glasses are wartime and maybe all of it is. I personally wondered for a long time if these were wartime for private purchase but I doubt that. On the other hand it is hard to see how there was a market for 40,000 binoculars in the mid 1945 to say 1947-48 timeframe. Given the lack of export Germany marks on these one has to assume they were sold within Germany or at least not imported to the US or UK.

My feeling is that value would be around 1/2 to 1/3 of same model with wartime serial range but that is just a swag.

[Mikedenmark]

Just to clarify a point. I hold it very unlikely it was in fact for any werewolf organisation. It is a possibility, but apart from a couple of dusin individuals, to the best of my knowledge, no werewolf organisation was ever found.

Besides, I think just about everyone in Germany changed their focus in 1945 very fast: To get something to eat.
Making a bino for black market sale much more likely.

If I had this bino, I would find out exactly where the serial should be. Then try taking photo´s of that area, with lightning at different angles, to see if I could find indications in the paint, that there is a serial number present.

[matello]

I have also a pair of tan 10x50.
bmj +
DF 10x50 marked
Reticule in right eye-piece

Serial number not visible.


They are approx. 2cm smaller than regular 10x50 by bmj.
So the questions are:
1) why are they "shorter" than regular 10x50?
2) are you sure those are postwar? If yes, shouldn't the serial number be already there anyway? Other markings are present (bmj and +) Or did they first stamped the bmj and + but the serial code was stamped separately at the very end of production???
3) if they are postwar, why would they put the regular reticule in the right eyepiece?

[harrison987]

to save on materials (aluminum), the later 10x50's were made about 1" shorter than the standard. I have seen this on 1944/1945 made ones.

Mike

[Sgt Bilko]

Wouldn't that affect the optics?

[matello]

Still, why bmj's "wtihout" serial number would be considered postwar, if they meet criteria of a regular wartime example? (markings, lubricants, reticle/grid in the right eye)?

[Mikedenmark]

If they do not have a serial number they do no comply with the criteria of WWII acceptance standards. Wehrmacht extremely unlikely to ever having accepted them without the serial number.

Personally, I doubt the conserved amount of aluminium would be an issue regarding the lenght.
I think, it is much more probable, that the inherrent unsuitability of the design for rigorius use, would be minimized with shorter tubes.
Any bino of this design would be susceptible to bending damage from even small strikes at the outer end of the tubes.
It is simply put not rugged enough for military use. IMHO.

[matello]

I think, it is much more probable, that the inherrent unsuitability of the design for rigorius use, would be minimized with shorter tubes.
Any bino of this design would be susceptible to bending damage from even small strikes at the outer end of the tubes.
It is simply put not rugged enough for military use. IMHO.

Tall BMJ 10x50 (and 7x56) were used during war, it's a fact. No matter how weak and poor one may consider the construction and design. IMO the short ones are quite rare, I don't even recall ever seing a short version in black paint. So even if Hensoldt was somehow trying to improve the design, it took him a couple of years to do so and the "improved" desing was not popular at all.

Still that doesnt answer the question - if it is not wartime, but postwar civilian production - why inlcude the reticule? Or why keep the markings of a wartime product?
I am gonna try to scratch of a little bit of paint to see if there is a marking underneath the paint.

[Mikedenmark]

I would not scratch anything on it. But it isn´t mine.
Eventually, one similar unnumbered one will turn up, with part of the paint allready chipped off. No need to scratch this one.

I have no idea if they were popular or not. If I am issued with something, I rarely can ask for an exchange.


If I don´t like it, I will, once in a rear area, accidently of course, drop it on something hard. Eventually, I will get something, I prefer.
( Do soldiers do this?.. Yes they do)

[Patty D]

I am gonna try to scratch of a little bit of paint to see if there is a marking underneath the paint.

[matello]

Relax - I did not scratch.
I just find it hard to undersand why wouldn't those be postwar if they are made like the military ones, with the reticule and military markings...

[harrison987]

Relax - I did not scratch.
I just find it hard to undersand why wouldn't those be postwar if they are made like the military ones, with the reticule and military markings...

Quite simple...

They HAD all the parts.

The Czech G13 (sold to Switzerland after the war) is a Post-War German Hetzer. made with ALL the same part that the German Hetzers were made with. After they ran out of the PaK39, the remainder were assembled with the StuK40, as numerous guns remained.

They even installed the German Radio sets until the Swiss changed them out...and all the German parts still retained the German markings.

The Czechs also did this for the Me109 (now called the Avia S-199).

The Ketterkrad was ALSO made in numerous quantities after the war for the Forestry Service. In-fact most surviving Kettenkrads are post-war and not wartime, as they made as many post-war as they did wartime.

Same with the RSO (post-war changed to have a front wheel), now called the Waldschlepper.

Same with the Walther P-38. The French made them AFTER the war, with all original wartime produced parts...including WaA inspection stamps.

Companies needed to survive after the war...and having numerous wartime parts ready to go...the obvious choice was to assemble products, and sell them.

You are reading way to much into something that was done by many companies after the war ended.

Mike

[Mikedenmark]

Harrison is right.

They made more than 6000 Kettenkraftrads after the war.

And it is really weird to get a french made P38. Marked svw 46. for 1946.
With german code, but dated a year after the war ended.

[Patty D]

Relax - I did not scratch.
I just find it hard to undersand why wouldn't those be postwar if they are made like the military ones, with the reticule and military markings...

I am pleased to hear it! They are a nice looking set