DAK 10x50 Binoculars (help)

[claszIII]

I just Got these binoculars today, and i have a few questions about them.

Are these really DAK
Why is there no serial #
Is the strap on the binocs. Go to them "wartime"
Is the case authentic to the binocs
Who was these actually issued to for use
Whats the value

[stroh]

These are Hensoldt roof prism binoculars. Hensoldt's wartime code was 'bmj'. These should not be considered DAK binoculars! Rather, they are painted ordnance yellow which was a standard camo color from 1943 -1945.

The case is a commercial Hensoldt example and would not have been issued with these binos. The set up for the neck strap is also non standard and is not correct. Not sure why there is not a serial number but it would usually be on the same panel as the 'bmj' code.

The tan examples seem to bring a bit more $ and these do appear to be in overall nice condition. Value would be $250 + as is. If they had a correct neck strap & case probably double that.

[phild]

All said better than I could have said it.

There almost looks to be a ghost of a serial number after the code where it should be. Very strange and should be checked.

[benutzer]

this binos is made after the war, arround 45/46 with wartime parts, for this reason no serialnumber

[claszIII]

No im confused! LOL

Iv got conflicting answers.

One person says Bmj is a wartime proof mark

An othed member says no serial # means post war.

I am leaning tords no serial # means immediate post war production

Iv had a few of these in the past and These are deffeneatly wartime parts the fact that there is no waffen stamps on the case and no serial # on the binos i suspected immediate postwar 45/46

[claszIII]

There is defenitly no serial # like stated below, ive had a few of these in the past and regretfully i got rid of them both.. no matter when these were manufactured the fact that they have no serial # is very odd. The optics are superb i got these to use for star observing but but if these are post war i might trade these for a good set of soviet cold war era 20x binocs but i am curious as to why there is no serial # on these.

[claszIII]

Does anyone know where i can get pre45 case and correct strap for these?

[claszIII]

This is what iv been told so far

Bmj is a wartime stamp

No serial # is post war 45/46

The D-F stamp is post war

What i know for sure. The case and Binos strap are post war

[claszIII]

No serial # binocs

To those that are interested, i found this while trying to figure out why these binos have no serial #. While it does not tell why there was no serial # it does explain early post war serial #s

A dated typical early postwar Hensoldt Dialyt set!

The set confirms our guess regarding the under 6-digit serial numbers being afterwar binoculars made in the Hensoldt factory in Wetzlar from a mixtur of residual parts and new produced ones.

Typical for these "mixed after war Dialyts":

- 2(yes!)-5 digit serial numbers (once I saw an after war Dialyt with only one digit # but I couldn't recognize the digit exactly on the picture!)

- no DRP ("Deutsches Reich Patent") on the civilian variants (all German patents were confiscated by the Allies in 1945)

- black cases made from different materials, clasps, strap hinges; bodies made from very (!) thick leather, thin leather cover over cardboard, different clasps like the WW2 frn ones or the traditional clasps with long holes, different case caps mostly with wood reinforcing inside and gaps for filters

- Vulcanisate cover strikingly glossy and with rougher structure as the prewar and after 1955 covers.

- up to # 36000 (1947/48?) lots of 10x50 and 7x56 "Dienstglas clones" in tan, rough or plain black paint, but avoiding the term Dienstglas (from old Dienstglas stock with renewed designation sold in PX-Shops to the West-Allies?).

Thanks a lot for sharing this information, Frank!

$900 for these afterwar binoculars is way to much! A set of real 10x50 or 7x56 Dienstglas in the #450000-580000 range with case is about 500 Euro in Germany.
(a good prewar civilian Dialyt with original case is about 100 Euro!)

All the best,
Winfried

[claszIII]

Does anyone know?

Does anyone know where i might be able to find out why these have no serial #? What someone said below is not correct the post war binoculars had serial #s also. Why does this set have no #s?

[Willi Z.]

If it was put together from parts postwar than it would not have a serial number. But it could have the "bmj" maker mark. And having the incorrect straps and case makes sense.

Since it makes no sense to have thrown out parts after the war, IMO, it could have been made years after the war.

[Mikedenmark]

It may be that this was some kind of "private" production.
If the production after the was allocated to specified buyers, like the british, french, or american, army, then any serial number outside of the allowed production could cause problems. If not to be taken for secretly supplying werewolf units, then at least for violating the conditions for receiving permission to produce new items.
So, someone might have made small production runs from unmarked parts. For black market sale, or it was simply made for internal purposes and not intended for sale.

Or, it is indeed serialised, but has had the number filled/covered in paint.
Not that I suggest anyone should scratch away the paint to see if it has a number.
And the testing equipment needed for a nondestructive test is not easy to obtain.
Unscrewing the objective lenses may give the number. That is, if Hensoldt engraved the serial numbers in the major parts of their binoculars

[claszIII]

When i 1st started researching these i thought the same that they was early post war original parts..... but as i learnt about how post war production of anything was monitored by the Allies especially firms that manufactured war goods i started to see that unnumbered early post war manufacture of these was not plausible...

If it was put together from parts postwar than it would not have a serial number. But it could have the "bmj" maker mark. And having the incorrect straps and case makes sense.

Since it makes no sense to have thrown out parts after the war, IMO, it could have been made years after the war.

[claszIII]

I think you might be onto something and let me explain why.
The Owner of Hensoldt was an devoted Nazi and the allies had issues with him After the war i dont think the allies were going to let him reopen the Company and when it did finally begin production again the original owner had to be done away with. I believe it was his sons that ran the Company post war. so he may have very well produced some of these optics illegally. Supplying The werewolfs is interesting and deserves further research. Thank ypu for pointing out all that you did! Now i have somemthing to go on!!!

It may be that this was some kind of "private" production.
If the production after the was allocated to specified buyers, like the british, french, or american, army, then any serial number outside of the allowed production could cause problems. If not to be taken for secretly supplying werewolf units, then at least for violating the conditions for receiving permission to produce new items.
So, someone might have made small production runs from unmarked parts. For black market sale, or it was simply made for internal purposes and not intended for sale.

Or, it is indeed serialised, but has had the number filled/covered in paint.
Not that I suggest anyone should scratch away the paint to see if it has a number.
And the testing equipment needed for a nondestructive test is not easy to obtain.
Unscrewing the objective lenses may give the number. That is, if Hensoldt engraved the serial numbers in the major parts of their binoculars

[phild]

There are many threads on the speculated immediate post war production of this type glass by Hensoldt, on this forum. I believe most all were made at least largely from left over parts and the different models were made up in multiple batches each with their own serial ranges to each batch. Some very early ones like made the first days or weeks after post war assembly began seem to be marked bmj and soon there after Hensoldt name appears instead. IMO it could be very likely that the very first assembled then had no number and shortly thereafter a new number convention was adopted. The care strikes me as much later and purely civilian but I guess could also be pre war civilian.