Zeiss Zielvier (ZF39), Zielsechs, Zielacht, ZF42, Ajack...

[hchris]

Hello,

I have been digging though some research material about the German infantry scopes and some questions came up, maybe somebody could help me with this please:

1) I read that there were Zeiss ZF 39 (Zielvier) variants with a crosswire and a triangle reticle. They are mentioned in the official WW2 era manual for it but I never came across any of those, does anybody have anything about this?


2) ZF42: I know that the ZF42 existed in real life and I know that it was used in WW2, there are numerous photos of this optic in use like this:



But what is really strange for me is that I have not found a single official source where this optic is mentioned. Any idea why they are not mentioned anywhere? Does anybody have any idea where I could look into? What were the differences to the ZF39? Both were 4x as far as I know?

3) Zeiss Zielsechs, Zielacht: It is often mentioned in auctions and forums that the Zeiss Zielsechs and Zielacht were used by German troops in WW2, but same here, I have not found a single official reference nor any photos of them being use in WW2. So is it true that they were used? Does anybody have a phot or reference?

4) Ajack: It is the same for the Ajack. I DID find an official source, it says that the AJACK 4x90 is used. But there are numerous variants of the AJACK, so which one was really used if any? Any official WW2 era photos?



I know that this are a lot of questions but there are so many rumors out there about "WW2 SNIPER SCOPES" that it is difficult to find out what is true or what is false or what is used just to sell a scope for a higher price....
Btw I am not trying to buy or sell anything, I am just curious about the truth.

Any help greatly appreciated!

Chris

[KenT]

ZF42 does not exist. It is a pure Fantasy. You will never find any original document refering ZF42 simply because it does not exist. The one in the picture you mentioned is a Commercial AJACK 4x90 with Focus ring and so-called "Objective mount". It is a Commercial System brought on a Military rifle. There were several Commercial scopes used on K98k. Early ones were used as the same Commercial style. Some examples are described in Manual D136/2 "Karabiner 98k mit handelsüblichen Zielfernrohren Beschreibung, Handhabung und Behandlung" dated 23.2.1943. In the Manual you can see the Names of the scope as; Heliavier, Zielvier, Ziel-Dialyt, Zieljagd, Ajack and Zielsechs. Later, some were made under Military contract in Military style. These were; Ajack 4x90(Military style, no maker code), bmj (Hensoldt Wetzlar Dialytan), bek (Hensoldt Herborn Dialytan), dkl (Josef Schneider Dialytan), cad (Kahles Heliavier or H/4x60) and dow (Optikotechna), perhaps I may miss some other. Note These are all different scopes and None have official Military names. In some books they call all of these as ZF39, but I do not agree. In the ZF39 Manual (D136) it only describes Zeiss Zielvier + Low turret mount System. It also says about a crosswire or a triangle reticle because Zielvier were Commercial scopes with possibility of Variation. They were introduced in 1920s as a Commercial scope and not made only in a fixed Military style. Still, I may be wrong on some Points. I had been learning for more than a decade but am still always learning.
For mounting systems of Sniper Rifles, see this excellent site.
https://www.wwiigermansniper.com/
And this is my site, now mainly on ZF41.
http://zielfernrohr.b.la9.jp/index.htm

[hchris]

ZF42 does not exist. It is a pure Fantasy. You will never find any original document refering ZF42 simply because it does not exist. The one in the picture you mentioned is a Commercial AJACK 4x90 with Focus ring and so-called "Objective mount". It is a Commercial System brought on a Military rifle. There were several Commercial scopes used on K98k. Early ones were used as the same Commercial style. Some examples are described in Manual D136/2 "Karabiner 98k mit handelsüblichen Zielfernrohren Beschreibung, Handhabung und Behandlung" dated 23.2.1943. In the Manual you can see the Names of the scope as; Heliavier, Zielvier, Ziel-Dialyt, Zieljagd, Ajack and Zielsechs. Later, some were made under Military contract in Military style. These were; Ajack 4x90(Military style, no maker code), bmj (Hensoldt Wetzlar Dialytan), bek (Hensoldt Herborn Dialytan), dkl (Josef Schneider Dialytan), cad (Kahles Heliavier or H/4x60) and dow (Optikotechna), perhaps I may miss some other. Note These are all different scopes and None have official Military names. In some books they call all of these as ZF39, but I do not agree. In the ZF39 Manual (D136) it only describes Zeiss Zielvier + Low turret mount System. It also says about a crosswire or a triangle reticle because Zielvier were Commercial scopes with possibility of Variation. They were introduced in 1920s as a Commercial scope and not made only in a fixed Military style. Still, I may be wrong on some Points. I had been learning for more than a decade but am still always learning.
For mounting systems of Sniper Rifles, see this excellent site.
https://www.wwiigermansniper.com/
And this is my site, now mainly on ZF41.
http://zielfernrohr.b.la9.jp/index.htm

Thank you very much for your reply!!

I thought that the ZF42 was not real, thanks a lot for confirming my assumption!


I got the D136/1, do you know where I can get the D136/2 "Karabiner 98k mit handelsüblichen Zielfernrohren Beschreibung, Handhabung und Behandlung" dated 23.2.1943 ?

I would love to check it out for further reference!

Btw very cool website, thanks for sharing!!

[luger 41]

Scopes

Picture shown is an Ajack 4 x 90 Objective Mount, looking for some of these mounts.

[KenT]

Thank you very much for your reply!!

I thought that the ZF42 was not real, thanks a lot for confirming my assumption!


I got the D136/1, do you know where I can get the D136/2 "Karabiner 98k mit handelsüblichen Zielfernrohren Beschreibung, Handhabung und Behandlung" dated 23.2.1943 ?

I would love to check it out for further reference!

Btw very cool website, thanks for sharing!!

It is hard to find D136/2, but there is a copy in Robert Spielauer's book "SCHARFSCHÜTZEN ZIELFERNROHREN UND MONTAGEN 1914-1945", page 203 to 207.
https://www.amazon.de/Scharfschützen.../dp/320001010X

[KenT]

BTW I realized a mistake in my first post. The ZF39 Manual is not D136 but D134. (I cannot edit to correct...?) D136 is a Manual for ZF41.

[hchris]

It is hard to find D136/2, but there is a copy in Robert Spielauer's book "SCHARFSCHÜTZEN ZIELFERNROHREN UND MONTAGEN 1914-1945", page 203 to 207.
https://www.amazon.de/Scharfschützen.../dp/320001010X

I sent you a PM, would you please be so kind and have a look?

[bergler]

Hi Chris,
About Zielsechs….have a look here:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=984782

You can come over and have a look, but don´t Forget the beer ;-)

[hchris]

Hi Chris,
About Zielsechs….have a look here:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=984782

You can come over and have a look, but don´t Forget the beer ;-)

WOOW seems like I missed this thread!

That is a fantastic Zielsechs in very good condition!

I would love to check it out personally, beer included :-) I will write an email to you soon (in a few hours!).

[hchris]

Soooooo after spending a lot of time going through a lot of German infantry optics related stuff there are still a few questions which I could not answer yet:

K.Kahles Wien Heliavier: I found some that are marked with H/4x60, some are marked with Heliavier. As I understood the Heliavier are pre WW2 scopes, the H/4x60 produced during WW2, but both were probably used during WW2, can anybody confirm this? The 4x obviously means 4x magnification, does the x60 mean 60° FOV?

Ajack: There are several AJACK scopes floating around marked AJACK 4x90 SS-Dienstglas. Obviously those were used by the SS. I read that they were also used by the Wehrmacht, there are even photos of them being used (see photo in first post). Then I also found the AJACK 4x68, what about this one, was it used too in WW2? Same question here, does the 4x90 mean 90° FOV?

Zielacht: The Zielacht appears in a few books (yes I read a lot in the last few days) and you can find a few photos of them online. But I have never seen a WW2 era photo of a Zielacht in use, so is this a myth?

As always any comments greatly appreciated :-)

Thanks

[KenT]

Kahles Heliavier and H/4x60 are basically same. Early scopes are marked “Heliavier” and around Serial No.30000 range they were switched to “H/4x60”. These were commercially made scopes with half-ring focus, but late H/4x60 (over serial No.40000 range?) seems to be made under military contract without focus ring, since there is an example shown on Spielauer’s book (you should buy the book!!). Then over Serial No.44000 they were made with military code “cad” in full military style. I do not have enough serial No. data for 4 power scopes so I am making a guess on Serial number range.

On 4 power Ajack scopes, there are 3 types, 4x42, 4x68 and 4x90. 42 and 68 are earlier than 90. I do not know an example of 42 or 68 used by military. Those numbers, 42, 68, 90 and 60 indicates luminosity or lichtstärke, showing the brightness of the lens.

I have never seen an evidence of Zielacht in use by military and I don’t think 8 power is useful for military. But no one can say they NEVER used it unless there is a document found denying its use. It is sure that they used several kinds of civilian scopes, and there is a possibility that a few Zielachts were included.