Bino Questions?

[Dion]

Hey Guys,

I came across a set of Binos, which i Believe to be made by a common maker of ddx. They are tan and have the neck strap attached, and I`d like to purchase them, but I have 2 questions before I do so?

1) If they are tan in color, does it neccessarlily mean they are DAK? as far as I can establich, ddx produced them from a certain date in the sand color.

2) What does H/6400 mean on the Dienstglas side of the Carl Zeiss made Bino?

Many thanks in advance guys

Dion

[Bond]

The H/6400 should mean that they have a range finder scale in one of the lenses and this applies to any german wwII binos, not just zeiss made examples.
DDX did produce dark yellow coloured binos with brown lenses, but if they have the pebbled bodies they may have been camoed in the field etc..It depends on the colour, is it tan or sand or late war dark yellow?

Jerry

[Dion]

Hi Jerry,

Thanks for your reply. Ok, now I understand whats meant by the H/6400

Regarding the color, well, its difficult for me to say what color it really is. I think its the late war dark yellow? Unfortunately, I dont have them with me right now, and the seller is adement that they`re DAK. You see, our old Vets fought up in North Africa as well as Italy, and thats where they came from. Maybe I must get some pics from him and post them?

Thanks for the reply once again.

Dion

[Stew]

Dion,
just adding a few additional background comments to jerry bond on colour.
Its rather hard for collectors to know whether a given pair of ddx 6x30 is a WW2 North African campaign souvenir (= DAK ) for sure .
However for my money if they do look anything like jerry bond's post below = a very good original pair and on the US Ebay market would fetch about $200+.

This following information was obtained from a collector data base from the Axis Forums:

The "ddx" code was adopted say by 1941 ,and at that point its 6x30 binocs were painted black (The Axis forums have recorded a range of serial numbers of black painted binos 51917 to 247330.)
At about that point in the serial # range the sand colour/DAK colour was introduced by ddx and continued until the end of production about (?).
Two of the collector respondents to the Axis Forum stated that their binocs were DAK souvenirs and the serial numbers that they provided were 303338 and 354476.

A few of my own observations:

the highest recorded ddx WW2 production serial number on the Axis Forum data base is 355435.

Of the 80 ddx serial numbers collectors provided in this Axis forum survey- approximately half were black binos.


Given that the duration of Deutsches Afrikakorps, ( or DAK ) North African campaign was from Feb 1941 until May 1943, it does make you wonder when ddx ended its production of 6x30 binos. According to Axis Forum collector sources it was about 959 binocs after 354476. ....Mmmmmm interesting.(?)

I mention in passing that the second most common 6x30 binocs appearing in this Axis forum survey was "cag" with details of 74 6x30 binos.

Cheers Dion

[Dion]

HI Dion,

Thanks a ton for all that info mate, its greatly appreciated. Well now I have something to work on. I`ll check the serial number and work out the approx date of these binos and maybe I can figure out what the manufacturing date is. These might well be DAK or later?

Anyway, I appreciate the time you took to respond.

Dion

[Dion]

The serial number on these Bino`s is 333209. So would this mean that they were made after or in `43?

Dion

[Stew]

Dion,
I can't help you with the ddx serial number and a date. However if the binos have a lubrication mark this may give you an approximate date of manufacture.
The symbols/codes used :

(i) blue triangle late 43 onwards till the end of WW2.
(ii) light blue cross "+" from November 42 till late 43
(iii) light blue circle "o" adopted August 42
(iv) "KF" adopted in May 1940

[Dion]

These have a triangle, however, with no color. What I mean is, is that the triangle is sand color? It does`nt look like the bino`s were ever hand painted, because what I`ve been able to asertain is, that the later (43) produced bino`s were smooth and not covered in leather or such and these were the types that were factory painted in sand color. These ones are defiantely smooth texture and looks like factory painted. The only oddity is that the triangle is also sand color and not blue, red or any other color?

Dion

[Bond]

My pair have a serial number of 279151 and A TRIANGLE, so how does that work, if the number is earlier than the dak examples listed previously, but must be late 43 onwards?

Thanks Stew for the time and trouble you are taking, Jerry

[Stew]

Hi Dion ,
the source of the grease codes info was a WAF contributor.
In my experience the triangle symbols are frequently encountered in an unpainted state on the original painted prism cover .If they are painted they were painted blue.

[Stew]

Hi jerry bond,
thanks for posting the pix of ddx 279151. A very nice original set!!!
It seems strange that the info on two 6x30's with higher serial numbers are reported in the Axis History collectors survey as having DAK provenance .
However, on the basis of information known to us on the introduction date of the triangle grease symbol in late 43 there is an inconsistency.
Looks like further information is required to reach firm conclusions.....

[Bond]

Hi Stew,
For me, I hope the dak provenace is strong with the 2 DAK pairs and that the introduction of the grease triangle is therefore earlier than previously thought, which would mean my pair 'might' be DAK. If the triangle incept date is correct, then my pair cannot be DAK and neither can the two pairs with provenance. It might be a case of buy the object, not the story, though I hope the story is correct!

Thanks, Jerry

[James N.]

Although neither an exhaustive nor particularly inclusive source, Gordon Williamson in Osprey #234, German Combat Equipments 1939 -45 states simply, "From 1943 they were also painted dark yellow without any form of body covering." I searched several months on fleabay for a pair to go in the Bakelite case I picked up at a local flea market, and was repeatedly astonished at the prices these would bring, particularly ANY tan pair. As we all know too well, sellers want to recieve the highest prices possible, regardless what it is they're selling; and if Afrikakorps! sells, then By God, these tannish binoculars MUST be!

Realistically, if they're "factory" paint jobs, and those weren't painted YELLOW until 1943, chances must be VERY slim they're "real". If you look as I have at photos of Rommel et al. in the desert you will notice that nearly all binos look to be painted BLACK. As recommended, buy the item, NOT the story. ( I finally found a worn black pair marked G.RODENSTOCK Munchen Dienstglas 6X30 160944 M H/6400with imperfect optics at the same flea market a little later for - $50! )

[Stew]

DAK binoculars

Hi James N,
its been a few months on this Forum since DAK provenance binoculars have been raised.
I took up your offer to look at pictures of "...Rommel et al.." I looked closely at a number of WW2 African campaign war films involving DAK troops, and all the photos of DAK officers and troops show ONLY BLACK binoculars in use.
I have discussed my initial findings with a DAK collector from WAM Forums ,and he agrees that sand coloured binocs were not issued to DAK.

I would like to discuss this topic further .
As a starter has anyone got photos of DAK troops using SAND coloured binoculars?

[mlespaul]

Hi James N,
its been a few months on this Forum since DAK provenance binoculars have been raised.
I took up your offer to look at pictures of "...Rommel et al.." I looked closely at a number of WW2 African campaign war films involving DAK troops, and all the photos of DAK officers and troops show ONLY BLACK binoculars in use.
I have discussed my initial findings with a DAK collector from WAM Forums ,and he agrees that sand coloured binocs were not issued to DAK.

I would like to discuss this topic further .
As a starter has anyone got photos of DAK troops using SAND coloured binoculars?

I'm with you. The "sandfarbe/dunkelgelb" color has no direct relevance to the north african campaign. I also have never seen any sort of documentary photographs showing these colors on binocular optical equipment used by AK.