Blue-grey MP 38u.40 Pouch

[John Hodgin]

Peter also asked that I post this example. He said this one has no markings.

[CSP]

I am very shakey on Schmiesser pouches...but does anyone have an opinion or facts that says the ordnance blue-grey was exclusively Luftwaffe?

[Willi Z.]

I think it is one of those collector preferences where blue-gray weapons pouches are considered to be Luftwaffe. They look nicer with displays. But, I also believe that blue-gray and green (later tan) are ordnance colors, with no regard for Luft or Heer issue. You see the same with ammo cans, scope cans, cloth breech covers and cans to carry heavy weapons optics.


These pouches have me baffled. I identical in contruction to the other posted one. Same 60-year old look.......same "concerns".

Willi

[CSP]

Thanks, Willi....I tend to agree, but do not collect much equipment, so am not as familiar with other field gear items that could lead me to that conclusion on my own.

[John Hodgin]

Until someone can prove otherwise, I think both Peter's pouches are authentic. Perhaps if I handled them I might have another opinion, but from the photos they look good. There were German troops in Norway until the war ended, I imagine a lot was left behind when they packed up and went home.....

I agree with Willi's observations on much general equipment being blue-grey. However, considering the Luftwaffe always produced bread bags and other equipment in blue grey, then produced tropical uniforms in blue grey, including sun helmets, side caps, tunics, trousers, canvas boots, web belts, web Y- straps, and web bayonet frogs, then later produced entire HBT uniforms in blue-grey, then it isn't hard to imagine that they also produced blue-grey 38-40 pouches and other field equipment.

[Steve in Florida]

Saw a bunch of blue gray pouches at the most recent Knob creek. They were bought in from Norway. Many had 40 and 41 dates. All were very greasy and dirty. I don't believe they were for sale as the new owner just took possession of them. They looked right as rain to me.

[pedro]

John, that's the thing. This pouch shows every indication of combat use. The wear from the magazines, the wear inside the loading tool pocket, the stitching inside the pockets has been worn from magazine "chafing", the leather closing straps show evidence of being pressed against the steel studs forever. I've smelled, inspected and blasted it with UV light. I like the fact that this is the ordnance blue/gray, doesn't have the leather strap on the loading pocket and is the early variety. <O></O>

I'm trying like hell to find a reason not to like this pouch -- and I can't. <O></O>

[Willi Z.]

Steve makes an interesting observation. I have also heard of the Norwegian connection with a source of used pouches. I suspect that they also used them after the war....and then stored them.


John makes a point that I have been pondering for many years regarding field gear and ammo pouches. I most certainly agree that the Luftwaffe made some of their field gear in blue-grey (bread bags, various rucksacks, etc) and that the FJs had some gear in blue-grey (knee pads, gas mask bags, etc).

However, to me ammo pouches are weapons related items.......and in my opinion the various colors were not made for the various braches. They were ordnance items. I do realize that some will differ on this issue. I have been trying to figure it out for years. Ammo pouches, such as those for the Mp38/40 and MP44 were in green , blue-grey and late-war tan.....the exact sequence of ordnance items; ammo cans. ammo drums, metal storage boxes, canvas breech covers (k98, MP40, MG34) , scope cans (fiber K43 scope boxes were ordnance blue-grey), storage cans for heavy weapons optics.will think of some more.

I just think field gear is different than ammo pouches for magazines, which I would consider ordnance items. I wish we had color photos to help prove this. It is only my opinion based on my observations.

Willi

[John Hodgin]

Hey Willi,

I agree that late war pouches were tan and intended for all branches. But why were blue-grey and green pouches produced during the same years? Why not just a single standard as the late war tan?

[Willi Z.]

I just don't know John....part of the puzzle. The same can be said for all the items I mentioned. Made in blue-grey and green at the same time. One of the desires of the 1943 change to ordnance tan was to establish a uniform ordnance color. Much to learn on this issue. Late-war field gear though (rucksacks, bread bags, etc) did not switch to tan though. I have '45 dated rucksacks in both blue-grey and green. But, I have not seen super late MP40/MP44 pouches that were blue-grey or green. Even the latest issue 6-pocket MP40 pouches were made from tan. Not saying that they don't exist...just haven't seen any to date.

Willi

[Peter Wiking]

Maybee they are original after all. Norway used the MP 40 well in to the 80´s if i´m not wrong. The grease Steve are talking about fits well with that the MP 40 where used here by tankers.

Cheers.
Peter Wiking

[John Hodgin]

Late-war field gear though (rucksacks, bread bags, etc) did not switch to tan though. I have '45 dated rucksacks in both blue-grey and green.
Willi

Willi, how does the tan gas mask bag fit into this theory?

Here are some more details from Peter.

[Steve in Florida]

I was showing my &quot;tropical&quot; pouches to the buyer.....

from PA and he pulled out about a dozen pouches out from under his table. My tongue hit the floor They had various markings and features. It was late in the evening and we were trying to close up our tables and I was totally blown away by the assortment of pouches, so I didn't note the markings or all the features. I didn't even think to get my camera He told me who brought them over from Norway for him. He's Norwegian and I know him. And like y'all already said, a lot of German stuff was used postwar by Norway, including MP40's up through the 1980's. I bought a beautiful German 1944 dated 8.8cm round from an ordnance disposal company who brought it back from Norway a few years ago. Anyway, the pouch posted on this thread looks like those I saw that night.

[Willi Z.]

John, it doesn't fit my theory...... You just had to bring my bag up didn't you? The pondering goes on.

Willi