Greek army DF 8x30 1940 binoculars Hellenic Army ΕΣ

[Mikedenmark]

Zeiss D.F. 8x30 binocular.
Delivered to Greece in 1940.
Marked: ΕΣ for: Ελληνικός Στρατός Hellenic Army.

Serial Number 2066614.

Seeger has the serial range as re-used in 1946, but apparently some numbers in the range was used in 1940.

The weird indents at the lower plates may simple be a way to remove markings, like crowns?
Not exactly in the same position on either side, and traces of a dull drill at the bottom. So, probably home made.

Ocular cover and top of case may have been marked as well. Nothing can be read now.

How this example ended up in the possession of a swedish train engine driver in northern Sweden remains a mystery.

Pretty unusual item.
.

[raak]

It can be ex Finnish army binoculars.
See cavalry museum collection pictures for lower plate markings.

Colonel von Essen Hans Olof binoculars

https://www.finna.fi/Record/musketti...M40:RVMRVE28:1

I remembered to see several these in SA markings in years ago.

[Mikedenmark]

There is no doubt these two came from the same origin.
Serial number 1988520. One of the ghost serial ranges. It was never produced. Really cute.

But the marking is also clearly Greek army on top.

I guess we now know where the greek bino´s went.
Either a diverted delivery, or, german acquisition in Greece, sent to Finland as help after 1941.

Can anything be said about dating? I mean, the finnish mark PvT. When was that in use?

And the finnish connection makes Boden northern Sweden much more likely.

Thank you so much for the link. I really appreciate it.
https://translate.google.com/transla...3ARVMRVE28%3A1
https://translate.google.com/transla...Hans_von_Essen
And a photo, most likely, of the museum bino, in use by the owner:
http://www.taistelijantalo.fi/images/von_essen.jpg

Check out the oculars. It looks very much like a 8x30
And, question. He received the Mannerheim Cross. Would that show up on a field uniform like this? Not the cross, but some kind of pin or ribbon?
The insignia suggest he was Lieutenant colonel at the time the photo was taken. When did he get that rank? ( I found my limits in finnish with this question. )

[raak]

Yes , is look like 8x30 in picture of Von Essen.

Armaments deliveries from Germany begins September 1940 , although there was
deliveries before winter war.
In the begins of winter war Germans AT-guns is on the way to Finland via Sweden , but after Sweden press revelation, it must withdrawal.
And during winter war , there was secret agreement between Sweden and
Germany , that every armament shipment from Sweden to Finland , Germany
deliver same amount to Sweden.
And these shipment includes binoculars , scherenfernrohrs and
entfernungsmessers.

There seem to be several markings on finnish optic

SMT early 20 ies like 6x24 dienstglas WW 1 ( in detail picture)
PMT maybe late 20 ies
PVT mid 30 ies
or only SA
or nothing . Some WW2 binoculars are later (60/70/80) marked whit tower logo.

https://aijaa.com/6ZINCZ

https://aijaa.com/WzOwAI

https://aijaa.com/SNlkRs

Sorry , no knowing of medals.

[Wpgbinocular]

Thank you, raak. This is some new and useful information. Much appreciated.

[Mikedenmark]

Very nice line up there. Thank you.

So, the PvT markings cannot narrow the time of issue here, as it was used before 1940.
Also interesting to see those RUKA binoculars.

Many years ago, I was told that the swedish army had stored all ther german Haubitzers they received during the war.
After 1945 it would be, allegdedly, too embarrassing to show Sweden had them. I don´t know if it is true.

[Lauritz]

Much optics were used without a second thought after the war, like the 45degree 10x80 observations bino.
Thinking of m/48T as it was named by the Swedish forces.
They just painted them with the correct colour.
All German markings present under the paint.

I just bought one set. Complete, even with the cleaning brush and cloth.

I would love how they got hold of them, as Sweden was not directly engaged in the war.
I think Binoswede knows much more!

Huge amounts of materiel was preserved and stored ( mostly brand new or very little used) up until they scrapped everything in the 90’s.
I cry when I think of that.

[raak]

Clarification for example: 1936 6x30 CZJ is PMT and 1938 6x30 CZJ is mere SA
and the wartime binos are PVT or mere SA.
There are a lot of uncertainties in these.
VON ESSEN Hans Olof, Lieutenant Colonel 9.11.1940, Colonel 1.11.1942

[Binoswede]

Ok guys, it would be nice have some documentation here before we go on.
Raak, I have never heard about this intended delivery of anti tank guns that you say Sweden stopped. What is your sorce?
Sweden gave a lot of their most modern ordonance to Finland during the Winter war but I have not heard of any agreement to get it replaced by the Germans.
I always thought the anti aggretion pact between the Sovjet union and Germany prevented help from Germany during the Winter war.
Sweden bought a lot of ordonance from Germany during the war. The main reason was that no one else wanted to sell.
We bought German howitzers, tru, but why hide them? Nothing to be ashamed of.
I have personally fired 10,5 cm m/40 and 15 cm m/39 ( but the 15 cm were made in Czechoslovakia).
The Observation kikare m/48 was bought as surplus. The allied armies "liberated" lots of this binocular and put them on the market. The 10x80 45 degrees was the most produced stand binocular ( I don't count the 12x60 for EM).
I don't know the present estimate, but I think Steven Rohan in his book "Eyes of the Wehrmacht" estimated 120 000.

[Mikedenmark]

It may be a rumour, but I also recall having heard that story about a cannon for a cannon. One through to Finland, one to Sweden. But, I must add that this is more than 30 years ago. And it may have originated in some obscure magazine whipping up a "nazi" theme related to Sweden.
Here in Denmark we had a couple of such magazines, mixing weirdness with Nazi articles and of course, a lot of poor girls who could not afford to buy clothes.
Those magazines may have run an article on nazi cannons in Sweden.
Such an article could easily be used in magazines across Europa.
I don´t know if this happened, but it might be an explanation.

I have seen no real proof of any such deal.

I didn´t know the swedish Model 48 was postwar purchases, but that do explain the model year. I always wondered about that.
And Binoswede is right. The allies distributed lists of equipment for sale.
I have seen such lists in the danish archives. From an american sales agency situated in Paris. There were probably others as well. The austrians who bought enigma code machines in spades bought theirs from some different source. You can find photo´s of the stocks online. I have seen them somewhere.

In the early 1990-ies, Sweden sold out at least some of these bino sets.
One danish wholesale dealer, I knew, sold complete set for Dkr 2500.- a. piece. Boxed bino + tripod. At todays exchange rate, that would be $ 367.-
When I found out, and called him, he told me some weird german dealer had just bought all the sets. He had been surprised at how fast they moved. Small wonder.
He did try to buy more, but for similar reasons, the swedes had sold the remaining sets allready.

Some other lucky sod came to the wholesale store of the swedish armed forces prior to this. In the middle of the room was a pile of large boxes stacked up. One open. Within, a WWI german aerial camera purchased for the swedish airforce after WWI.
Asking price: Svkr 500.- a box. ($ 52.-)
Why?.. The boxes had been for sale for months, but as absolute no one had expressed any interest whatsoever, they had decided to lower the price to get rid of them.
They sold them all in one go that day.


The swedish purchases of german equipment was also partly because Sweden needed something in return for their iron ore and wood.
Something Germany could deliver. Coal and Military stuff were two options in such trades.

Besides, Sweden lacked nickel for high grade steel. So making cannons was difficult with iron only. I have been told some swedish anti aircraft cannons on the shore opposite german occupied Denmark had wooden barrels at first.
There was steel for the mechanism, but not enough high grade steel for barrels. Over time, the wooden barrels were exchanged with real one´s.
Same thing with swedish Lathi pistols. Frames made out of iron with insufficients strenght for a normal service life. Simply beacuse high grade steel was limited. Later they also received new frames when better steel became available.

[Lauritz]

Thank you Binoswede for chiming in.
The m/48T sets for sale recently look in a fantastic condition, I have been wondering if they were ever used in the field by the Germans, or if they were sourced as NIB, unused.

During the war, Sweden had to modernize the Armed Forces hugely and rapidly, and this continued up until the end of the Cold War. Much was bought from abroad, before production at home could satisfy the need.

Mikedenmark, the Lahtis were made in Finland, but that design was also made in Huskvarna by the Husqvarna factory. The Sw. army designation ‘pistol m/40’.

It is a bit of an urban myth that the steel in the m/40 was substandard. The problem was that the Swedish army had 2 different 9 x19 mm ammo, one ’standard’ and one designed for the Kulsprutepistol pistol m/45 ( Kpist m/45)
I do not recall the ballistics, but it was basically a +P ammo.
The bullet had a steel jacket, hence the need for a higher pressure.

Think +P ammo in a gun rates only for the standard 9 x19, so not good!

The m/40 developed cracks in the frame after several thousand of the ‘+P’ ammo.

Edit:
There is a nice m/48T for sale in Sweden just now. Around 2000 USD.

As a side note, the Germans also purchased large amounts of grade A Diabas ( black granit) from Hägghult/Lönsboda
for use in building Germania, but never collected it. Still there, waiting for Merkel to sent the Word!

I used to live in that area.

[Binoswede]

Excuse me Lauritz, but the Swedish model issue number is m/48 without a T.
The T has been added by the seller, I can not see any T on the binocular in the pictures.
I also can not see any coating on the binocular, but only the oculars are visible.
There were a few 10x80 45 degrees produced with coating at the end of the war. Very rare of cause and I have not seen any issued in Sweden.
Interesting is that it is a beh (Leitz). Most of the Swedish m/48 are dkl. I even wrote in my book that it might only be dkl's, but I was wrong.
20000kr-around 1900€ is not cheap, but the binocular looks to be complete and in good condition.
Germany produced a lot more binoculars as needed on uboat, warships etc.
It is a fact that many ,perhaps most, of the binoculars we collect spent the war in a storage on a shelf.

[Lauritz]

I have not sen that specific box, but on other examples the box it is marked ( Swedish markings) with a T?
“ Obs. kikare M/48T”

Flygvapenmuseum/DigitalMuseum has the same

Weird!

Is your book available still?

[raak]

Well, i do not say that sweden stopped (actually AA-guns) , but because sweden press make it public , hitler decide to cancel further delivery (30 pieces 20mm in nowember and 20 pieces via sweden i december 1939 has arrived allready).
Old source is risto peltovuori germany and finnish winter war 1975 p63-81.
And recently and whit more information markku jokisipilä guest from third reich , finland in hitlers germany sphere of influence 1933-1944 p138-258.
It is a long story impossible by me to tell it here as a whole.
But some points
Germany wanted finland copper and nickel , and return we negotiated arms and
ex polish army war booty deals , but this must be make secretly from soviets.
Göring tell 21.12.1939 in carinhals to sweden artillery inspector colonel birger hedqvist that german deliveries to sweden is meant to be compensation to sweden delivery to finland or otherwise he would be no longer swedens friend.
Sweden support finland in winter war 471 mil euros (2008value) and germanys deliveries to sweden in 2yers period is 550 milj euros.
This help to finland was so massive that sweden could not make it without germans back up,compromising its own defense capapility .

[Lauritz]

But Sweden had its own AA gun? Widely exported before and after the war?
The Bofors 40mm.

The dealings between Sweden and Germany just before and during the war are hugely complex, and will for sure never be fully known.