Need help unknown optics

[dagger63]

Hello everybody,
I have 2 optics here and I do not know your name nor what they were used for. I think it is a target optics, manufacturer Germany. The optics were built by C.P. Georz Berlin. What was it used for? What is the name of the optics? It seems too heavy and too big for a rifle. The other is probably a look for cards or something. NV Observator Rotterdam is on the device. What is your opinion on this. I couldn't find anything about it on the entire Internet.

[Mikedenmark]

NV Observator:
https://observator.com/about-us/history/
It looks like an accessory to a compass.

The German optics may be for an instrument for making spectagrahic measurements.
Like testing crystals or light spectres of flames.

What can you see when you look into it? The graticule ??

[Mikedenmark]

I am not sure, but the Goerz optik may be part of a polarimeter.
I did look around, but I do not have a Goerz catalog on scientific instruments.

[Sgt Bilko]

The illuminated reticle provision on the Goerz makes me think it's military...

[dagger63]

At the telescope target, if it's one, I think it's military. It has the recording for a military reticle lighting. But I don't know what it was used for. I don't think for a gun, maybe for a gun? I can look in at the observator. It has no graticule or the like. It is a big problem for me

[Mikedenmark]

What if you apply light to the little lightning window?
Use a torchlight, in a dark room. Still nothing to be seen from the end?

I still doubt it is military. Those screws on the outside 2 x 4, is what makes me believe in an instrument, rather than a piece of military equipment.
They are simply too exposed for an ordinary military item.

The screws also hint at 2 crosshairs, like some teodolites has. Not that I can come up with an explanation for the use of a double set of crosshairs in one instrument.
Turning one plate against another would make sense in a polarimeter though.
That is why details of the scale would be nice.

[Sgt Bilko]

I know where you're comin from but Barr and Stroud mde a rifle scope with a similar two wheel adjustment for the cross hairs.

[dagger63]

I think that according to my research, it is an optic for snipers. The reticle is illuminated.

[Lauritz]

Wrong attachment and wrong reticule for a sniper scope.

Since they were devised, sniper scopes have more or less looked the same.

[Lauritz]

What is the magnification?

[Mikedenmark]

If you turn the images 90 degree counter clockwise, so the "arrow" points up, it would be right.
But, from the photo´s, I have to admit, it looks like a cannon sight, possibly MG.
The makes my instrument suggestion plain wrong.

[globbitz]

Hello all,

Well, at risk of this sounding a bit like a gameshow '20-questions' et-al; I'd suggest that we need to know more about the baseline for the reticule photo(s), and then we need to illicit more information in order to decide the purposes of the two dial / indicators. Only then can we discount various instruments (by function), and arrive at our considered opinion.

1. We have a top-dial that looks very-much like a Micrometer or rifle-scope top elevation turret (range / bullet drop compensator), and we also have
2. A co-axial dial.

So, my questions to Dagger63 are:

a) What positions were on the dials when you provided the two 'through the eyepiece' pictures? Ideally they were both at 0 - 0 ?
b) When you turn the top-dial, does this slowly change the value on the co-axial dial? i.e. do you have to rotate the top-dial a full rotation in order to rotate the co-axial a single angular increment? If so, then we should refer to the top-dial as a micrometer.
c) If, however, the top-dial is NOT connected to the co-axial dial, then what happens to the inverted 'V' when you change the top-turret ? - Does it go up as the turret values increase, or does it go down in respect to the cross-hairs? Or, do both cross-hairs and inverted-V move together?**
** In order to determine this correctly, you must fix the instrument pointing at a specific distant item/target (maybe over 50m away), not a blank background.

d) In order to target the optic, and focus upon that target, do you have to turn the co-axial dial? If so, do the readings bear any relation to the distance to your target?
e) If the co-axial dial is not a focuser, then finally, what happens to the orientation of the Cross-hairs and/or the inverted 'V' when the co-axial dial is changed? Do the values reflect Degrees of angle, where 90=1/4-turn or MILS, or some other angular measurement?

My thoughts were originally that the C.P.GOERZ instrument was one of the following types of instruments, so perhaps in the light of the answers to my questions above, then we might be able to narrow-down some of the following:

i) Polarimeter.
ii) Focimeter.
iii) Filar Micrometer for a Microscope or other scientific instrument.
iv) Micrometer Telescope for a surveying instrument.
v) An Optical Collimator / Telescope / AutoCollimator.
vi) Direct-fire military optic.
vii) In-direct fire military optic.
iix) Observation / targetting optic (not directly mounted to a weapon).
ix) Any other instruments I've missed?

I'd be grateful if you can give the C.P. GOERZ a thorough examination, and answer some, or all of my queries above.

Regards,
Paul

[globbitz]

Addendum - one more question (just in-case):

f) If the co-axial dial is not a focuser, and the instrument does not focus a remote target 50m to infinity (except perhaps only by adjusting the eyepiece, but in doing-so losing focus of the reticule itself); then, keeping the reticule perfectly adjusted for focus, at what distance 0m to 50m is the target in sharp focus?

If the instrument is indeed a Micrometer controlling the co-axial, and is changing the angle of the inverted 'V', then I'd suspect that you might-well find that the target focus is extremely close 0-1m.

[raak]

It is not the same , but its has similarities , its Goerz sight for 20mm
antitank rifle. travel drum for 0-2000m 0-20 .



https://aijaa.com/Ff3zmC

[globbitz]

It is not the same, but its has similarities, its Goerz sight for 20mm antitank rifle. travel drum for 0-2000m 0-20 .

https://aijaa.com/Ff3zmC

Hello raak,

Yes, I concur, that is a very good likeness.

More-importantly, it seems to point us towards the smaller 'micrometer' thimble in a horizontal (windage) orientation, and perhaps not for elevation?

Regards,
Paul