need help in ID

[DTVPKING]

can someone help me id these two[ATTACH]
[/ATTACH]

[HPL2008]

Both are Funkmeister (technical NCO for radio communication) trade patches:

The one on the left (it should be rotated 90 degrees so that the lightning bolts point upwards and downwards) is from the Luftwaffe of the Third Reich. (I only know these with an outer cord edging, though, not the embroidered circular border seen here.)

The one on the right is from the post-war Luftwaffe of the FRG.