Hybrid Tropical Flying Jacket

[kaiserwilhelm2]

[QUOTE=NickG;5237993]its a KM tunic (those have button up collars) that has been altered. [QUOTE]

Not being well versed in KM, can anyone please provide a pic of such a KM-tunic? Thanks.

Cheers, W

[NickG]

[QUOTE=kaiserwilhelm2;5669569][QUOTE=NickG;5237993]its a KM tunic (those have button up collars) that has been altered.

Not being well versed in KM, can anyone please provide a pic of such a KM-tunic? Thanks.

Cheers, W

Not the best images but the armpit area is the clue that its a converted KM tunic (other branches did not have these ventilation holes in thier tunics as far as I know and I own tropical tunics of all branches)

[NickG]

Compare:
I think I even see scars of pocket removal...it was clearly a tunic (hence the fake French cuffs... and size stamps).
These characteristics (cuffs and ventilation holes) obviously did not make it on the repro channel jacket
which was based on this modified one!

[NickG]

Chest pockets area

[-Ray-]

[QUOTE=NickG;5669697][QUOTE=kaiserwilhelm2;5669569]

its a KM tunic (those have button up collars) that has been altered.

Not the best images but the armpit area is the clue that its a converted KM tunic (other branches did not have these ventilation holes in thier tunics as far as I know and I own tropical tunics of all branches)

Nick:

Don't the Sahariana tunics have the corded vents? I believe my 1st pattern SS example does in fact have the vent variation If I recall. I have troipcal tunics from all branches myself but in storage still?

My collection is an unfocused diversity as yours. Regardless, this flight jacket does'nt compare.

-Ray-

[NickG]

[QUOTE=-Ray-;5669901][QUOTE=NickG;5669697]

Nick:

Don't the Sahariana tunics have the corded vents? I believe my 1st pattern SS example does in fact have the vent variation If I recall. I have troipcal tunics from all branches myself but in storage still?

My collection is an unfocused diversity as yours. Regardless, this flight jacket does'nt compare.

-Ray-

You are right Ray, I checked my SS Sahariana and it does acually also have some vent holes, I forgot about that one, but here's the difference:
instead of the 9 hole pattern (4+3+2)... Saharianas only have 5 (less rows= 3 + 2) and the construction is different (no rectangular box stitching)

The other clue that the LW "flight Jacket" started off as a KM tunic are the French cuffs which Saharianas lack and RBNr which usually is not seen on SS equipment...and converting a Sahariana would be more work! I do agree that Saharianas were also worn by LW personnel... Nevertheless this garment started life as a KM tropical tunic, I have no doubts.

It's interesting that the repro suppliers used this one of a kind custom garment as a reference to create their "tropical" channel jacket with waist buckle...Of course it never existed like this as official government issue clothing and lacks sleeve zips as seen on most flying jackets... another indicator that it's not a true text book piece of LW flight gear! (a tunic conversion, well done and probably period!)

[kaiserwilhelm2]

[QUOTE=NickG;5670460][QUOTE=-Ray-;5669901]

You are right Ray, I checked my SS Sahariana and it does acually also have some vent holes, I forgot about that one, but here's the difference:
instead of the 9 hole pattern (4+3+2)... Saharianas only have 5 (less rows= 3 + 2) and the construction is different (no rectangular box stitching)

The other clue that the LW "flight Jacket" started off as a KM tunic are the French cuffs which Saharianas lack and RBNr which usually is not seen on SS equipment...and converting a Sahariana would be more work! I do agree that Saharianas were also worn by LW personnel... Nevertheless this garment started life as a KM tropical tunic, I have no doubts.

It's interesting that the repro suppliers used this one of a kind custom garment as a reference to create their "tropical" channel jacket with waist buckle...Of course it never existed like this as official government issue clothing and lacks sleeve zips as seen on most flying jackets... another indicator that it's not a true text book piece of LW flight gear! (a tunic conversion, well done and probably period!)

Nick IMO your reasoning is plausible. But what does this mean for the value of it? What would a converted tunic like this be worth? No pic of it being worn and likely a one of piece.

[werner]

Hi guys,

Here is a KM tropical jacket.
Not mine.

[-Ray-]

This buckle clearly looks like hardware scavenged from a waffenrock internal support belt.


-Ray-

[kaiserwilhelm2]

Yes it does.

[Harry]

I think the whole thing is a fantasy piece. Why would any serving pilot go to so much trouble to have a tailor knock one of these up from scavenged items, when the real tropical flying jackets were readily available to all luftwaffe flight service personnel

[pablo10]

i remember leroy did a search for the pilot names and came up with
"OK.....

No Egon Rall shows up as having been awarded the RK, DK or Ehrenpokal (means nothing, of course, as most did not).

No Egon Rall is listed as ever having been a pilot, or serving in any capacity, with JG 27.

No Egon Rall shows up in the abbreviated Luftwaffenrangliste I have, nor have I found him (so far) in the much longer list compiled postwar by the German government for pension purposes. I will keep looking, but am not holding my breath.

In all the photos contained in books I have on JG 27, Marseille, etc., I find no photos of any flight jacket resembling this piece"

[werner]

I agree.
It does not make any sense.

[kaiserwilhelm2]

Harry,

true but redoing a whole KM jacket as a flight jacket (and being able to do it really well) is also rather odd if your object is to make a fake and presumably to sell it as something original to make some money. No one will want to pay much for something that has no precedent. But I guess we will not be able to tell one way or another unless the piece is put together with post war materials or if a period pic shows up in which it is actually worn.

Cheers, W

[stonemint]

Whatever it is/was, it is going to sit and collect dust for along time to come....