M24 frag sleeve question

[BrunoH]

Hi dear members,

There is a thread opened (maybe in a bad section) here:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...t=99340&page=8

My question would be:

What is the 'normal' weight encountered for such kind of frag sleeve please (for an original example of course ? )







Thanks in advance.

Regards

[HGrenadier]

+++

Hi,
It's a wrong marking here. "Do" denotes Donarit-explosive filling into the bodies, and should be onto them, not here...

[BrunoH]

Hi HGrenadier,

Thanks for this answer.
Nevertleless, would'nt it be possible that for M24 model with that kind of frag sleeve already provided (I mean, grenade + sleeve mounted in a carrying box), the marking 'Do' would allow to know what is the grenade filling ? (Because, the markings are hidden by the sleeve itself ? Do am I wrong ? )

Just to learn...

Regards

[HGrenadier]

Hi,
Not excluded, but unusual. Are there any traces on the inner surface of the sleeve (I mean does it look like it has been mounted)?

[francis006]

Hi,
It's a wrong marking here. "Do" denotes Donarit-explosive filling into the bodies, and should be onto them, not here...

sorry you're wrong , see the thread and the pics Bruno posted for me .
The 2 frags have been still found on grenades heads ( full for sure). there were few more in the box
BTW the owner of the full carrying box kept others grenades and sleeves for him !

[HGrenadier]

+++

Servus,
By my opinion - not original lacquer (repainted). Not all the stick grenades in the packing boxes were fitted with frag sleeves - initially 30% (5 pcs. in the box) from March 1943, and 50% after September 1944. I can quote even the original document that regulates this. And the sleeves were not placed on the heads, but loosely on the sticks (I have a picture of a such box, I'll search for it). So the markings onto the sleeves......... are very unusual.
But exceptions to the rules are always existing too.

[BrunoH]

Hi again,


Thanks very much for your lights. At the beginning I was looking for the weight but I've learned other things. Would you have any opinion about it?
I've different inputs -which surprised me-.

As mentioned previously, I l' "like" very much Francis sleeves. And I have no expectation about mine at all. But a friend of mine gives me a different weight...

Anyway... always ready to learn more.

Best regards

[francis006]

Servus,
By my opinion - not original lacquer (repainted). Not all the stick grenades in the packing boxes were fitted with frag sleeves - initially 30% (5 pcs. in the box) from March 1943, and 50% after September 1944. I can quote even the original document that regulates this. And the sleeves were not placed on the heads, but loosely on the sticks (I have a picture of a such box, I'll search for it). So the markings onto the sleeves......... are very unusual.
But exceptions to the rules are always existing too.

Thanks for the infos ,again no problem for me !
The paint is original and the usual green one used on grenade (I have several mint ones of all styles myself ) and as you can see if you know what to look for on a good frag sleeve , they are original for sure .
When all has been found many years ago , the sleeves were in the box as mentionned . Were they initialy on the head grenades , I don't know but I can ask my friend to whose they were given for free . I just know they were originaly in the box and as you confirmed , good to hear it's a fact they were issued like this and I didn't know before (could be in a separated box).To add I also remember he told me all the grenades were not fitted with sleeves and only few of them from the 2 types were in the carrying box . Something you also confirm
The original owner wasn't a "collector" as we are , almost all his "collection" were gifts because of his work my friend was lucky to know him well as , again , they cost him nothing too
Now as you said , they are known rules and the reality

Bruno , of you have new facts please give thell me
From the makers , they could be slight variations in the weight .I have another one but sadly have no possibility to have access to it actualy

[Grenademan2005]

Servus,
By my opinion - not original lacquer (repainted). Not all the stick grenades in the packing boxes were fitted with frag sleeves - initially 30% (5 pcs. in the box) from March 1943, and 50% after September 1944. I can quote even the original document that regulates this. And the sleeves were not placed on the heads, but loosely on the sticks (I have a picture of a such box, I'll search for it). So the markings onto the sleeves......... are very unusual.
But exceptions to the rules are always existing too.

I´m agree in all with him. Always talking about Bruno sleeve, not from Francis ones. Bruno, I posted in the other thread about weights.

[BrunoH]

Thanks very much for your "participation".
Regards

[Bjørn]

Hello. I have been following this discussion from the sideline for some time now. Regarding the autenticity of the different makers of serrated fragmentation sleeves, I have not seen any other than the "brb" maker markings, wich I think is original German ww2 manufacture. The beforementioned "oxo" marked fragmentation sleeves, I suspect to be eastern block or post war manufactured. Proberbly for military use on eastern block models hand grenades.

Anyway. Last summer I and a friend of mine here in Norway found such a brb marked fragsleeve, on a trip to the German retreat line from Finland and Russia on the Norwegian side of the border. The first picture here shows the frag sleeve as it was found on the mountain:



The next couple of pictures are of the frag sleeve during the cleaning process with oxalic acid:





Maker markings:



The next pictures here are of the frag sleeve that we found, together with another frag sleeve from my collection (wich has been stored under proper conditions, and is in exellent original condition)















Kind Regards
Björn
Norway

[Bjørn]

Perhaps a little off topic here - but on our trip to the retreat line we found a lot of ordonance/grenade related items. Here are some more pictures, for those interested.
Here is a carrying frame for the Eierhandgranate 39:




Carrying frames for stick grenades:





More stuff:






Used handle for smoke grenade. We actually found two of these, wich we brought back with us.




Lots of rusted ration cans and debries.





I brought with me some different hand grenade frames, when I returned from the mountain. Here are a picture of my backpack, just before we started walking down:




Here are the transport frames, when I had arrived home:











I decided to remove the rust from the carrying frames, and restore them, before the rust could ruin them. I used oxalic acid to remove the rust. Here is the transport frame for the Eierhandgranaten, after the acid bath:









And after recieving a coat of red primer:















Kind Regards
Björn

[Grenademan2005]

Hey Man:
What a lucky man you are who can find these awesome items just on the mountain, here in Spain only you can find at mountains are condoms
I know many collectors, (me), who will kill for that M39 egg rack. Nice items you have in your collection. About oxo sleeves I have to say that oxo was German Wartime manufacturer of ammunition Teuto-Metallwerke GmbH, Osnabrueck.

[jeeeensy]

Ahhhh the good old OxO...

indeed there are many fakes around and oxo has been branded one of them i'm afraid. I aquirred these a while ago an have only just really got round to cleaning it.
The oxo repros are easy to spot if you know what to look for. longer clasps
is one of them and the stamp is another, there is a dealer that sell at the 2 shows here,, ciney and War and Peace show. He had a nice Tan sleeve and when i asked is it genuine " oh yes all original mate of course it is i dont sell repros " in a accent. then you look round the stall and see another three just amongst other items,, come on FFS! how many tan sleeves in mint condidtion do you see in one place,,,same as the smooth stamped sleeves,,same dealer
same stall as Miguel spoke about earlier. ( i think it is in this thread or maybe the other ,,to many threads on sleeves ) but yes there are oxo fakes around as is other fakes but these are real enough, and are less common than BrB serrated sleeves here belive it or not.

Hope this helps... nick