Flak 41

[luger 41]

wanted to know if the flak 41 A.P. Shell was ever fitted to the KwK 43 Case,
i have seen one recently steel casing brass coated, dated 43. with a flak 41
shell A.P. with base fuse, fuse and primer missing, what would the correct
fuse be a Az23, and what electric primer should it have, are these expensive,
anywhere who sells them.

[slade007]

The Flak41 had a "boattail" shaped round like the Kwk43 round but used the narrower Flak36 driving bands. The Flak41 & Kwk43 AP rounds were not the same. Flak41 HE round nose fuse would be the Az23/28 that had a slightly stiffer spring init to overcome the higher muzzle velocity of the 8,8cm rounds when fired. It did use the C/22 electric primer for brass casings & the C/22st for the steel casings. This is just a quick summary of the basics for you. Hope it helps. Dirk

[luger 41]

flak41

Are you saying the flak41 shell will not fit the KwK case, maybe it has the
original shell, i will try and get pictures.

[slade007]

It will fit the case fine but is not the round used in the Kwk43. Both rounds are hard to find in AP Pzgr 39, etc.

[Paul C]

To help understand the question you need to clarify which projectile you are referring to.

The 8,8cm Flak 41 used 2 types of AP shells:
1. 8,8cm Pzgr. Patr. 39 (black witha white tip)
2. 8,8cm Pzgr. Patr. 39/1 (black with a white tip and a white 1)

The 8,8cm KwK 43 also used shells with the Pzgr 39/1 projectile but this was replaced by the Pzgr 39/43 with the wider drive bands to improve stability in worn barrels.

The answer is they can use the same AP projectile. The projectiles had a base fuse Bd.Z 5127

Regards
Paul

[luger 41]

flak41

Yes it does have the white tip and white painted number one on the shell,
could these have been used in the tanks of 1944. when did they change
to the pzr39/43.

[Paul C]

It is a 8,8cm Pzgr. Patr. 39/1......very nice, have you a picture?

I can only say for certian the 39/1 was used by the 8,8cm Pak 43 which was introduced in 1943. I am not sure when the 8,8cm KwK 43 entered service and it may have been after the 39/43 projectile was in production.

The other thing was the shell was exactly the small as used for the tank and the anti-tank gun, both with a c/22 electric primer.
The shells cases were also stencilled KwK and Pak.

[luger 41]

It is a 8,8cm Pzgr. Patr. 39/1......very nice, have you a picture?

I can only say for certian the 39/1 was used by the 8,8cm Pak 43 which was introduced in 1943. I am not sure when the 8,8cm KwK 43 entered service and it may have been after the 39/43 projectile was in production.

The other thing was the shell was exactly the small as used for the tank and the anti-tank gun, both with a c/22 electric primer.
The shells cases were also stencilled KwK and Pak.

kwk43 marked casing 6388st dated 43.

[luger 41]

flak41

casing marked KwK43 6388st dated 43,

[Paul C]

Very nice.
The projectile looks in good condition.

Have you bought it?

[luger 41]

Theres is however some small holes on the other side which need restoring,
and the base is rusty,what value do you think it is worth has it is in
original condition.

[Paul C]

Do you mean what value is this shell before you alter it?
For this shell the projectile alone could be £150. It is had to say as 8,8cm items for any gun are very expensive.

One thing I must say is I would rather have a rare shell case with holes than one someone has tried to restore. It is always best to leave alone and attempts at resoration usually reduce the value.

[François B.]

What I see on the pic.....

I would say leave it as it is....

It has more value in this condition IMO, just use a little oil for conservation...

Nice one...